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	<title>Comments on: Secrets and Shame</title>
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	<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2005/11/03/secrets-and-shame/</link>
	<description>Making the World Safe for Liberalism</description>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2005/11/03/secrets-and-shame/comment-page-1/#comment-190</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Nov 2005 22:43:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=80#comment-190</guid>
		<description>has anyone considered the possibility that these prisoners aren&#039;t who they&#039;re said to be. there are hundreds men incarcerated in the u.s. in &#039;supermax&#039; facilities who have committed the most heinous of crimes. yet they are granted rights and even privileges such as tv, exercise areas and access to books. why the difference?

though this will be dismissed as &#039;conspiracy theory&#039;, maybe these  detainees who are not acknowledged and those who have been killed, know something about 9/11 that the u.s. government doesn&#039;t want revealed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>has anyone considered the possibility that these prisoners aren&#8217;t who they&#8217;re said to be. there are hundreds men incarcerated in the u.s. in &#8217;supermax&#8217; facilities who have committed the most heinous of crimes. yet they are granted rights and even privileges such as tv, exercise areas and access to books. why the difference?</p>
<p>though this will be dismissed as &#8216;conspiracy theory&#8217;, maybe these  detainees who are not acknowledged and those who have been killed, know something about 9/11 that the u.s. government doesn&#8217;t want revealed.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott lloyd Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2005/11/03/secrets-and-shame/comment-page-1/#comment-188</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott lloyd Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Nov 2005 21:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=80#comment-188</guid>
		<description>Are we now the bad guys? 

John Wayne was a movie actor. Risk is a board game played by stoned frat boys. 

We are now seeing the real world results of decisions made by chickenhawks who think they own the world. &quot;New American Century&quot; indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are we now the bad guys? </p>
<p>John Wayne was a movie actor. Risk is a board game played by stoned frat boys. </p>
<p>We are now seeing the real world results of decisions made by chickenhawks who think they own the world. &#8220;New American Century&#8221; indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: Basharov</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2005/11/03/secrets-and-shame/comment-page-1/#comment-187</link>
		<dc:creator>Basharov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Nov 2005 21:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=80#comment-187</guid>
		<description>&quot;Oh, and don&#039;t forget the death squads.&quot;

You can be sure that John Negroponte won&#039;t.

There is a simple solution that would put a stop to these war criminals:  Prosecute Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney under 18 U.S.C. sec. 2441, the U.S. federal criminal statute that makes it a war crime for an American citizen anywhere in the world to commit a &quot;grave breach&quot; of the Geneva Conventions.  Is there any doubt that abolishing the protections of the Geneva Conventions and ordering torture and cruel, degrading, and humiliating treatment of prisoners under the U.S. government&#039;s control are &quot;grave breaches&quot; of the Conventions?

Obviously Abu Gonzales will never prosecute his buddies, so we need another Special Counsel to be appointed to investigate this bunch and prosecute them as the war criminals they are.

Sadly, the Bush Cabal will stonewall any such appointment.  Our only real chance to bring them to justice is for the Congress to go overwhelmingly Democratic in 2006, at which point real investigations, with subpoena power, can begin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Oh, and don&#8217;t forget the death squads.&#8221;</p>
<p>You can be sure that John Negroponte won&#8217;t.</p>
<p>There is a simple solution that would put a stop to these war criminals:  Prosecute Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney under 18 U.S.C. sec. 2441, the U.S. federal criminal statute that makes it a war crime for an American citizen anywhere in the world to commit a &#8220;grave breach&#8221; of the Geneva Conventions.  Is there any doubt that abolishing the protections of the Geneva Conventions and ordering torture and cruel, degrading, and humiliating treatment of prisoners under the U.S. government&#8217;s control are &#8220;grave breaches&#8221; of the Conventions?</p>
<p>Obviously Abu Gonzales will never prosecute his buddies, so we need another Special Counsel to be appointed to investigate this bunch and prosecute them as the war criminals they are.</p>
<p>Sadly, the Bush Cabal will stonewall any such appointment.  Our only real chance to bring them to justice is for the Congress to go overwhelmingly Democratic in 2006, at which point real investigations, with subpoena power, can begin.</p>
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		<title>By: Swami</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2005/11/03/secrets-and-shame/comment-page-1/#comment-185</link>
		<dc:creator>Swami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Nov 2005 20:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=80#comment-185</guid>
		<description>Oh, and don&#039;t forget the death squads...Not that America would engage in that kind of behavour,but sometimes we tend to look the other way if it serves our purpose,wink, wink.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and don&#8217;t forget the death squads&#8230;Not that America would engage in that kind of behavour,but sometimes we tend to look the other way if it serves our purpose,wink, wink.</p>
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		<title>By: Swami</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2005/11/03/secrets-and-shame/comment-page-1/#comment-184</link>
		<dc:creator>Swami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Nov 2005 19:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=80#comment-184</guid>
		<description>I hear that the CIA isn&#039;t too happy about getting into the gulag management business. It&#039;s more of Bush&#039;s governing by delegation and fantasy...let others fret the details of his bold initiatives, that&#039;s what war presidents do.



Dilawar? goatherder?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hear that the CIA isn&#8217;t too happy about getting into the gulag management business. It&#8217;s more of Bush&#8217;s governing by delegation and fantasy&#8230;let others fret the details of his bold initiatives, that&#8217;s what war presidents do.</p>
<p>Dilawar? goatherder?</p>
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		<title>By: emel</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2005/11/03/secrets-and-shame/comment-page-1/#comment-176</link>
		<dc:creator>emel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:24:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=80#comment-176</guid>
		<description>It is definitely a political appointee&#039;s &#039;boys&#039; game. People like John Yoo who the media trots out all the time to try to rationalize it all away. But &quot; that talking point won&#039;t fly&quot; anymore.  Rationalization is just that- excuses for doing what you want to do. 
Rumsfeld and Big Vice were members of the shadow government games for the past 20 years- don&#039;t forget they have practiced long and hard at setting up a separate stove pipe of command and control. The Whig is part of that, Libby&#039;s activity, the OSP at defense , poindexters sick little group at defense etc etc. and it is so easy to get little georgie to sign off on hundreds of executive orders to do what ever you want to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is definitely a political appointee&#8217;s &#8216;boys&#8217; game. People like John Yoo who the media trots out all the time to try to rationalize it all away. But &#8221; that talking point won&#8217;t fly&#8221; anymore.  Rationalization is just that- excuses for doing what you want to do.<br />
Rumsfeld and Big Vice were members of the shadow government games for the past 20 years- don&#8217;t forget they have practiced long and hard at setting up a separate stove pipe of command and control. The Whig is part of that, Libby&#8217;s activity, the OSP at defense , poindexters sick little group at defense etc etc. and it is so easy to get little georgie to sign off on hundreds of executive orders to do what ever you want to do.</p>
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		<title>By: PW</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2005/11/03/secrets-and-shame/comment-page-1/#comment-175</link>
		<dc:creator>PW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=80#comment-175</guid>
		<description>Great new look on the blog, and a terrific post.  I&#039;m a big, long-term fan of Bob Herbert who has done much good through his column (take &quot;Tulia&quot; for example) but James E. Powell, above, is quite right about the bottom line.  Krugman himself excoriated journalists the other day in his column for not Just Giving The Facts.

Maha -- I haven&#039;t seen mention of &lt;a href=&quot;http://billmon.org/archives/002330.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Billmon&#039;s post today&lt;/a&gt; which is a first cousin of your &quot;Secrets and Shame.&quot;

In case that embed doesn&#039;t work:  http://billmon.org/archives/002330.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great new look on the blog, and a terrific post.  I&#8217;m a big, long-term fan of Bob Herbert who has done much good through his column (take &#8220;Tulia&#8221; for example) but James E. Powell, above, is quite right about the bottom line.  Krugman himself excoriated journalists the other day in his column for not Just Giving The Facts.</p>
<p>Maha &#8212; I haven&#8217;t seen mention of <a href="http://billmon.org/archives/002330.html" rel="nofollow">Billmon&#8217;s post today</a> which is a first cousin of your &#8220;Secrets and Shame.&#8221;</p>
<p>In case that embed doesn&#8217;t work:  <a href="http://billmon.org/archives/002330.html" rel="nofollow">http://billmon.org/archives/002330.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: bluewave</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2005/11/03/secrets-and-shame/comment-page-1/#comment-174</link>
		<dc:creator>bluewave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=80#comment-174</guid>
		<description>The best stuff behind the subscription wall often appears over at www.truthout.org.  It&#039;s usually the next day, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The best stuff behind the subscription wall often appears over at <a href="http://www.truthout.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.truthout.org</a>.  It&#8217;s usually the next day, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2005/11/03/secrets-and-shame/comment-page-1/#comment-173</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Nov 2005 07:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=80#comment-173</guid>
		<description>Excellent piece. 

Powell, by the way, has a brilliant line: It is cocktail chatter and pure sport. 

That&#039;s it, isn&#039;t it? This is what passes now for conventional wisdom. I remember Tom Brokaw years ago in front of the White House angry that Nixon had been pardoned. Years later, he embarrassed himself defending Robert Novak after he outed Valerie Plame and lied about his involvement. Washington has become a dangerous drug for too many people who stay too long and hear the seductive and insiduous chatter of Washington power lunches. In a different context, my mother used to observe, rather drily I might add, that it&#039;s called: keeping up with boys.

I just finished Squandered Victory by Larry Diamond.It&#039;s very strange to read the book knowing that Abu Ghraib was taking place and that the Pentagon was building a worldwide archipelago of detention centers as dozens of Americans were roaming Iraq trying to set up democracy centers and sell democracy. 

Is this just incompetence? Or do we have a potemkin administration and a Cheney/Rumseld administration that exist side by side? 

Sometimes I think the issue is simpler. These are right wing John Birch types who have spent their whole lives reacting to the times without any examination of all the contradictions in their cherished observations or all the views that are ten to a hundred years out of date. We&#039;re witnessing perhaps an eclectic right wing ideology driven by misplaced nostalgia.

I hope I live long to read what historians say twenty years from now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent piece. </p>
<p>Powell, by the way, has a brilliant line: It is cocktail chatter and pure sport. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s it, isn&#8217;t it? This is what passes now for conventional wisdom. I remember Tom Brokaw years ago in front of the White House angry that Nixon had been pardoned. Years later, he embarrassed himself defending Robert Novak after he outed Valerie Plame and lied about his involvement. Washington has become a dangerous drug for too many people who stay too long and hear the seductive and insiduous chatter of Washington power lunches. In a different context, my mother used to observe, rather drily I might add, that it&#8217;s called: keeping up with boys.</p>
<p>I just finished Squandered Victory by Larry Diamond.It&#8217;s very strange to read the book knowing that Abu Ghraib was taking place and that the Pentagon was building a worldwide archipelago of detention centers as dozens of Americans were roaming Iraq trying to set up democracy centers and sell democracy. </p>
<p>Is this just incompetence? Or do we have a potemkin administration and a Cheney/Rumseld administration that exist side by side? </p>
<p>Sometimes I think the issue is simpler. These are right wing John Birch types who have spent their whole lives reacting to the times without any examination of all the contradictions in their cherished observations or all the views that are ten to a hundred years out of date. We&#8217;re witnessing perhaps an eclectic right wing ideology driven by misplaced nostalgia.</p>
<p>I hope I live long to read what historians say twenty years from now.</p>
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		<title>By: James E. Powell</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2005/11/03/secrets-and-shame/comment-page-1/#comment-172</link>
		<dc:creator>James E. Powell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Nov 2005 06:06:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=80#comment-172</guid>
		<description>I have a pretty good idea how this happened.  And I am guessing Bob Herbert does too.

But what has he done about it?  With the exception of Krugman, I hold all of these corporate press/media people responsible for what has happened to this country.  Solely reponsible?  No, but they played a critical part.  Without their support of the eight-year witch hunt against Clinton, the two-year smear against Gore and the whole bullshit legend of Shrub, the Brave and Bold, the &#039;adults in charge,&#039; the lies, the lies and the failure to tell the truth.

They all went along with it.  They suffer nothing in consequence.  It is cocktail chatter and pure sport.

I don&#039;t mean to pick on Herbert, but when was it he went into his bosses and told them he was going to quit if they didn&#039;t clean up their act?  Has he mentioned to Pinch that if he doesn&#039;t get rid of Judith Miller that he is walking and taking anyone he can convince with him?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a pretty good idea how this happened.  And I am guessing Bob Herbert does too.</p>
<p>But what has he done about it?  With the exception of Krugman, I hold all of these corporate press/media people responsible for what has happened to this country.  Solely reponsible?  No, but they played a critical part.  Without their support of the eight-year witch hunt against Clinton, the two-year smear against Gore and the whole bullshit legend of Shrub, the Brave and Bold, the &#8216;adults in charge,&#8217; the lies, the lies and the failure to tell the truth.</p>
<p>They all went along with it.  They suffer nothing in consequence.  It is cocktail chatter and pure sport.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t mean to pick on Herbert, but when was it he went into his bosses and told them he was going to quit if they didn&#8217;t clean up their act?  Has he mentioned to Pinch that if he doesn&#8217;t get rid of Judith Miller that he is walking and taking anyone he can convince with him?</p>
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