17 Comments

1. joanr16  •  Dec 14, 2005 @2:44 pm
   

   I get so sick of this. I guess it’s what comes of a religion built on 2000 years of martyrs. After that long, martyrdom degenerates to self-pity and whining.

   I’ve seen this topic explained marvelously well in the left blogosphere. When pressed to cite instances of “oppression,” the whiners invariably describe situations where, in fact, they were prevented from harassing others who believe differently. Whiner logic: you’re oppressing me by keeping me from oppressing others.

   I’d say if anyone’s been thrown in jail, as mentioned above, it’s for harassment of others. As for the “locked churches,” I’d love to know more about that one. If Pat Robertson can call his vast and complex world o’ grift a “church,” I can’t imagine what would cause one to be locked by our grifter-friendly government.

2. dr. luba  •  Dec 14, 2005 @2:46 pm
   

   But Maha, you’re missing a point. Mikki is probably a “Christian” with a big C. You know, the sort that think that they, and only they, are truly Christian. The sort that have persecuted their coreligionists throughout the centuries, and continue to do so whenever given the opportunity.

   Catholics, according to them, aren’t really Christians, anyway–they’re papists, idol-worshippers, etc. I recall being taught every November in Primary school about the brave Pilgrims, and how they had to travel to America to be able to practice their true Christian faith, free of idolatry, papism and incense.

   My family is Eastern Orthodox (we consider Catholics to be a break-away sect), and although we don’t have a pope, do indulge in icons and incense. It was only in later years that I came to realize that I was having Protestantism forced upon me in grade school. The indoctrination didn’t work, but it did make me feel a bit un-American.

   Mikki and her kind yearn for the days when they could burn witches at the stake and punish non-believers, and when American public schools were Protestant schools in disguise.

3. Steve M.  •  Dec 14, 2005 @3:04 pm
   

   If “being harassed in school” equals being “suppressed,” then I was “suppressed” every schoolday of my life throughout junior high.

4. maha  •  Dec 14, 2005 @3:07 pm
   

   I was “suppressed” every schoolday of my life throughout junior high.

   I used to catch grief from the other kids for being a trespasser instead of a debtor, until the teachers stopped leading us in the Lord’s Prayer in class. Thank you, SCOTUS.

5. Steve M.  •  Dec 14, 2005 @3:13 pm
   

   BTW, here’s a proposition for Miki:

   She gives me a dollar for every “locked church” that turns out to have been locked because the church was telling people they had the legal right not to pay taxes.

   I give her five dollars for every “locked church” that was locked for some other reason.

   I guarantee I’ll come out ahead.

6. Steve M.  •  Dec 14, 2005 @3:16 pm
   

   (I’ll amend that: Telling people they don’t need to pay taxes or refusing to withhold employees’ taxes out of a belief that the tax law is illegal. In any case, I’m 99.99999% certain that every church shuttered by the government in this country in recent years has been shuttered because it was run by people who fell for “the income tax is illegal” BS artists.)

7. joanr16  •  Dec 14, 2005 @3:16 pm
   

   Steve,

   Except, Miki should give you ten dollars for every “locked church” that’s just going to be locked for Sunday services on Christmas, because “they just ain’t enuff bidness” to justify staying open, as maha reported recently.

8. A Canadian reader  •  Dec 14, 2005 @3:23 pm
   

   I think people need very specific instructions when being asked to provide specific instances of “oppression”. Otherwise, we end up taking urban legends as “Gospel truth” (pardon the pun).

   I need to know more than that it “happened” in Plano, TX. I want to know the date, the name of the school, etc. I want cold, hard, substantiated facts. Reading about it on a website that shares your beliefs, for instance, does not make it real.

   Personally, I have not noticed any Christian oppression. I live in a large, urban centre in Canada. At my kid’s end of year (which I actually out of habit call Christmas) concert, they sing carols in English and French, in addition to at least one Channukah and one Kwanzaa song.

   As a Jew, I am sometimes annoyed when people automatically wish me Merry Christmas but I’ve gotten used to it over the years. When I know the person I’m speaking to is (or was raised) Christian, I wish them Merry Christmas myself. They in turn wish me the same, always forgetting that I don’t celebrate Christmas. Oh well.

   I have to say that I’m very happy they’ve gotten rid of the Lord’s Prayer in the schools. Having to say it every morning, all through my primary school years was supremely disrespectful of the majority of students at my public school who happened to be Jewish.

   So Happy Holidays to you all (no matter which religion you practice or don’t practice!).

9. jerri  •  Dec 14, 2005 @3:58 pm
   

   Miki,

   I get the impression when you say christians are being oppressed you are talking about yourself. A believer in Christ and his love would never let anything in the world produce the fear you seem to be expressing. Please make an appointment with your spiritual leader and disscuss these oppressed feelings. If he is unable to get you out of this funk…I suggest its time to find a new church.

10. The Big Picture  •  Dec 14, 2005 @4:29 pm
    

    Miki … hello? Hello?!

    Maha, the article you sited was regarding a faith-based program which turned out to be ‘Catholic vs. Christian’. All the more reason to keep the state and church separated and not to use public funds for faith-based initiatives. As a reformed Catholic, I’m tired of these so-called christians wearing their religion on their sleeves. My spirituality belongs within me and that’s where i’m keeping it.

11. maha  •  Dec 14, 2005 @4:30 pm
    

    Maha, the article you sited was regarding a faith-based program which turned out to be ‘Catholic vs. Christian’.

    Yes, I know. And in my experience the worst oppressors of Christians are … other Christians.

12. Ick of the East  •  Dec 14, 2005 @11:30 pm
    

    Oh Miki what a pity you don’t understand.
    The Buy-Bull-Uh said to bless those who persecute you.
    Why do you hate the Buy-Bull-Uh?

    Bless Me

13. Rick  •  Dec 15, 2005 @9:15 am
    

    I stil think that not only are these people “holier than thou” but in the corner of their mind they never shine light to they believe heaven is the ultimate segregation. Not just from non beleivers but Christians they would not be in the same congregation with.

14. Ian  •  Dec 15, 2005 @10:41 am
    

    Miki, here’s the thing: EVERY single time I have managed to track one of these oh-my-gosh aren;t those evil Xs terrible (for any given value of X) … it has turned out that there was MUCH more to the story. Enough, in EVERY instance, that the original claim (they banned christmas, or they kicked a teacher out for having a picture of george bush, or they sued a teacher for saying George Washington was an OK guy, whatever) … that the original claim, while usually having a kernal of truth, is in context completely misleading. SO, lists like the one you gave in the other thread are useless. Need links to web sites and/or newspaper articles talking about specific cases.

    -me

15. Erin  •  Dec 15, 2005 @12:01 pm
    

    I ran into a comment on a New York blog the other day in which someone actually said that the transition from “Merry Christmas” to “Happy Holidays” and the watering down of Christmas in New York had dampened her enjoyment of December. I spent this past weekend touristing with out-of-town friends and, after wading through the crowds at the usual destinations — the Rockefeller Center tree, Saks, St. Patrick’s Cathedral, the Herald Square Macy’s… and SantaCon also occurred on the same day — I have to say that anyone who thinks there’s less public display of Christmas this year clearly never leaves home.

    But then it kind of makes you wonder how many people are buying into the rhetoric that one less Mary statue in the town square is a sign that the secular heathens are coming to oppress all the Christians.

16. John Manning  •  Dec 15, 2005 @12:34 pm
    

    I look forward to Mikki’s ‘proofs’. LOL!

17. grannyinsanity  •  Dec 16, 2005 @12:23 am
    

    The United Churches of Christ were not allowed to air a commercial that advertised welcome and tolerance because ABC thought it would be too controversial in light of Dobson’s campaign against Sponge Bob and Winnie the Poo.

    I want no part of that kind of religion.