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	<title>Comments on: The New Iron Curtain</title>
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	<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2006/04/10/the-new-iron-curtain/</link>
	<description>Making the World Safe for Liberalism</description>
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		<title>By: DJ Stephens</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2006/04/10/the-new-iron-curtain/comment-page-1/#comment-6427</link>
		<dc:creator>DJ Stephens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=599#comment-6427</guid>
		<description>Now being from Texas I agree that something should be done. They are over running our towns and schools.American born are being denied jobs because we are not bilingual.The schools have to hire less credited teachers to adjust to the population.I&#039;m just waiting for them to require my son to learn spanish.Then you&#039;ll see my head spin.I am a nurse who works with tuberculosis patients. Now guess where all my active cases come from, and I don&#039;t even live near the border.These people coming over illegally are spreading disease since there is no way of screening them.Not to mention the women who come over here to have their babies and tax our medical services.I say if they want to come, do it the right way.And don&#039;t expect us to pay their way.We are way overtaxed paying for our own deadbeats to take on more!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now being from Texas I agree that something should be done. They are over running our towns and schools.American born are being denied jobs because we are not bilingual.The schools have to hire less credited teachers to adjust to the population.I&#8217;m just waiting for them to require my son to learn spanish.Then you&#8217;ll see my head spin.I am a nurse who works with tuberculosis patients. Now guess where all my active cases come from, and I don&#8217;t even live near the border.These people coming over illegally are spreading disease since there is no way of screening them.Not to mention the women who come over here to have their babies and tax our medical services.I say if they want to come, do it the right way.And don&#8217;t expect us to pay their way.We are way overtaxed paying for our own deadbeats to take on more!</p>
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		<title>By: uncledad</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2006/04/10/the-new-iron-curtain/comment-page-1/#comment-6362</link>
		<dc:creator>uncledad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Apr 2006 02:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=599#comment-6362</guid>
		<description>Stop shopping at Wal-Mart. Stop voting for assholes. Stop looking the other way. Stop being the problem. Become the solution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stop shopping at Wal-Mart. Stop voting for assholes. Stop looking the other way. Stop being the problem. Become the solution.</p>
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		<title>By: eRobin</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2006/04/10/the-new-iron-curtain/comment-page-1/#comment-6357</link>
		<dc:creator>eRobin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 19:34:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=599#comment-6357</guid>
		<description>Every patch for the immigration problem is just that, a patch.  It&#039;s like leaving in the perforated appendix while you hop around the body trying to keep ahead of the infection.  It isn&#039;t going to work.  

We need to have a living wage in this country.  We need to repeal NAFTA and CAFTA and every other trade agreement that benefits corporations at the expense of workers, the environment and host countries.  We need to lift up America and lift up the world.  We need to listen to people like Jeffrey Sachs.   It would be a relatively easy thing to do if we used our enormous power for good instead of evil - easier certainly than doing what we&#039;re doing which is leading to a degraded planet, perpetual war, famine and pestilence and the much smaller problem of illegal immigration into the United States.  

Living wage, universal health care, fair trade, voting reform (Since we are effectively disenfranchised with the use of unverfiable electronic voting machines.  We won&#039;t get anything without getting voting reform first.) and workers&#039; rights.  These are what we should be marching for. And my god, we should be marching every day.  These reforms will solve the problem of illegal immigration.

Until we get serious about all of that, we&#039;re going to be talking about about band-aids that do nothing but disappear into the wound.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every patch for the immigration problem is just that, a patch.  It&#8217;s like leaving in the perforated appendix while you hop around the body trying to keep ahead of the infection.  It isn&#8217;t going to work.  </p>
<p>We need to have a living wage in this country.  We need to repeal NAFTA and CAFTA and every other trade agreement that benefits corporations at the expense of workers, the environment and host countries.  We need to lift up America and lift up the world.  We need to listen to people like Jeffrey Sachs.   It would be a relatively easy thing to do if we used our enormous power for good instead of evil &#8211; easier certainly than doing what we&#8217;re doing which is leading to a degraded planet, perpetual war, famine and pestilence and the much smaller problem of illegal immigration into the United States.  </p>
<p>Living wage, universal health care, fair trade, voting reform (Since we are effectively disenfranchised with the use of unverfiable electronic voting machines.  We won&#8217;t get anything without getting voting reform first.) and workers&#8217; rights.  These are what we should be marching for. And my god, we should be marching every day.  These reforms will solve the problem of illegal immigration.</p>
<p>Until we get serious about all of that, we&#8217;re going to be talking about about band-aids that do nothing but disappear into the wound.</p>
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		<title>By: Tito</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2006/04/10/the-new-iron-curtain/comment-page-1/#comment-6355</link>
		<dc:creator>Tito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=599#comment-6355</guid>
		<description>Maha, I agree... $15 an hour minimum seems like way too much of a raise, that&#039;s almost tripling the current national rate and doubling even the highest state rates.  Regardless, for me, &quot;what the minimum wage should be&quot; is a seperate debate.  I&#039;m more concerned with ensuring that the current minimum wage is paid to all workers.  (And associated taxes are collected, etc.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maha, I agree&#8230; $15 an hour minimum seems like way too much of a raise, that&#8217;s almost tripling the current national rate and doubling even the highest state rates.  Regardless, for me, &#8220;what the minimum wage should be&#8221; is a seperate debate.  I&#8217;m more concerned with ensuring that the current minimum wage is paid to all workers.  (And associated taxes are collected, etc.)</p>
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		<title>By: felicity smith</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2006/04/10/the-new-iron-curtain/comment-page-1/#comment-6354</link>
		<dc:creator>felicity smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=599#comment-6354</guid>
		<description>What would happen if more border crossing stations were built between the US and Mexico, and Mexicans were allowed to come and go the way we do between states as long as they passed through a station? Would Mexicans working here be willing to work for the low wages they earn now if their status was not illegal? If they then could demand higher wages, what affect would that have on competing American wages and job availability?  It seems to me that it may be time to really get creative around this issue, to get out of the box, to take a whole new tack.  There are lots and lots of points to consider, but what we&#039;re doing now is merely rearranging the chairs on the Titanic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What would happen if more border crossing stations were built between the US and Mexico, and Mexicans were allowed to come and go the way we do between states as long as they passed through a station? Would Mexicans working here be willing to work for the low wages they earn now if their status was not illegal? If they then could demand higher wages, what affect would that have on competing American wages and job availability?  It seems to me that it may be time to really get creative around this issue, to get out of the box, to take a whole new tack.  There are lots and lots of points to consider, but what we&#8217;re doing now is merely rearranging the chairs on the Titanic.</p>
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		<title>By: Israeli Moving Company</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2006/04/10/the-new-iron-curtain/comment-page-1/#comment-6351</link>
		<dc:creator>Israeli Moving Company</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=599#comment-6351</guid>
		<description>The illegals coming in trample crops, kill livestock, and harass land-owners since they can&#039;t just cross through a major hiway.  That is a big part of the hatred.
Since everyone who ain&#039;t &quot;bigoted&quot; wants these &quot;illegals&quot; here.  Why doesn&#039;t the government allow them to get in through the border checkpoints?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The illegals coming in trample crops, kill livestock, and harass land-owners since they can&#8217;t just cross through a major hiway.  That is a big part of the hatred.<br />
Since everyone who ain&#8217;t &#8220;bigoted&#8221; wants these &#8220;illegals&#8221; here.  Why doesn&#8217;t the government allow them to get in through the border checkpoints?</p>
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		<title>By: uncledad</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2006/04/10/the-new-iron-curtain/comment-page-1/#comment-6349</link>
		<dc:creator>uncledad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 16:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=599#comment-6349</guid>
		<description>Maha,

You are so right about the complexity of this issue. I find myself (a lifelong liberal, ACLU member, etc.) agreeing with Lou Dobbs on this issue. He has been harping about this problem for years. He sees it for what it is, Global Corporate greed. While your comments about breaking up families appeals to my liberal tendencies, the fact is they have started families in a country where they have no legal status. The cost of deporting 12 million illegals alone, will prevent it from ever happening. In fact I’m not sure the federal government is even up to the task of documenting all those people (see Katrina). I believe the solution must begin and end with cracking down on people and corporations that hire illegals, a $40,000.00 fine and a felony conviction, no need for barrier walls and border storm troopers. Many on the right who want this guest worker program just want a global cheap labor pool to exploit, I haven&#039;t quite figured out why some on the left want the guest worker program. To me it is just another form of legalized slavery. As far as the marches I have to give them credit, If only we could have such marches to exhibit the 65% opposition to the Iraq war. Although I think the marches and demonstrations need to happen in Latin America, if the standard of living there was livable we wouldn&#039;t have all of these people so desperate to work here. Like you said it is very complex, and I don’t see this current bunch in Washington (left or right) having the brain power or political will to fix it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maha,</p>
<p>You are so right about the complexity of this issue. I find myself (a lifelong liberal, ACLU member, etc.) agreeing with Lou Dobbs on this issue. He has been harping about this problem for years. He sees it for what it is, Global Corporate greed. While your comments about breaking up families appeals to my liberal tendencies, the fact is they have started families in a country where they have no legal status. The cost of deporting 12 million illegals alone, will prevent it from ever happening. In fact I’m not sure the federal government is even up to the task of documenting all those people (see Katrina). I believe the solution must begin and end with cracking down on people and corporations that hire illegals, a $40,000.00 fine and a felony conviction, no need for barrier walls and border storm troopers. Many on the right who want this guest worker program just want a global cheap labor pool to exploit, I haven&#8217;t quite figured out why some on the left want the guest worker program. To me it is just another form of legalized slavery. As far as the marches I have to give them credit, If only we could have such marches to exhibit the 65% opposition to the Iraq war. Although I think the marches and demonstrations need to happen in Latin America, if the standard of living there was livable we wouldn&#8217;t have all of these people so desperate to work here. Like you said it is very complex, and I don’t see this current bunch in Washington (left or right) having the brain power or political will to fix it.</p>
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		<title>By: winedarksea</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2006/04/10/the-new-iron-curtain/comment-page-1/#comment-6348</link>
		<dc:creator>winedarksea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 16:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=599#comment-6348</guid>
		<description>That &quot;immigrants don&#039;t pay taxes&quot; meme is a red herring.  At their income level, they would be eligable for tax rebates (if some portion of their salaries were withheld).  

The truth is that when an employer hires an undocumented worker and pays them under the table, s/he avoids paying taxes.  Such as social security, unemployment insurance, and worker&#039;s comp.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That &#8220;immigrants don&#8217;t pay taxes&#8221; meme is a red herring.  At their income level, they would be eligable for tax rebates (if some portion of their salaries were withheld).  </p>
<p>The truth is that when an employer hires an undocumented worker and pays them under the table, s/he avoids paying taxes.  Such as social security, unemployment insurance, and worker&#8217;s comp.</p>
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		<title>By: maha</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2006/04/10/the-new-iron-curtain/comment-page-1/#comment-6345</link>
		<dc:creator>maha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 14:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=599#comment-6345</guid>
		<description>Tito -- all things in balance. The minimum wage is long overdue for a raise, but on the other hand policy proposals have to be kept in this time-space continuum. 

In my life I&#039;ve seen the minimum wage go up a few times, and every time the conservatives have a screaming fit and wail that it&#039;s going to reduce the number of jobs and drive small businesses owners into bankruptcy, and it never happens. But a raise the size you are proposing is scary even to me. 

This is a complex issue -- more so than it might seem from a distance -- and coming up with the best solution will require input from many perspectives. I&#039;m not sure what the answer is, but yours doesn&#039;t seem to me to be feasible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tito &#8212; all things in balance. The minimum wage is long overdue for a raise, but on the other hand policy proposals have to be kept in this time-space continuum. </p>
<p>In my life I&#8217;ve seen the minimum wage go up a few times, and every time the conservatives have a screaming fit and wail that it&#8217;s going to reduce the number of jobs and drive small businesses owners into bankruptcy, and it never happens. But a raise the size you are proposing is scary even to me. </p>
<p>This is a complex issue &#8212; more so than it might seem from a distance &#8212; and coming up with the best solution will require input from many perspectives. I&#8217;m not sure what the answer is, but yours doesn&#8217;t seem to me to be feasible.</p>
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		<title>By: Tito</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2006/04/10/the-new-iron-curtain/comment-page-1/#comment-6344</link>
		<dc:creator>Tito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 14:32:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=599#comment-6344</guid>
		<description>As far as &quot;the cost of produce will go up&quot;, the vast majority of the markup on that is NOT the laborer&#039;s wages, but the processing, transportation and store markup and miscellaneous overhead.  Requiring minimum wage laws to be followed might raise those prices a noticable amount, but it would be something closer to 10%, and not 100% or 200%.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as &#8220;the cost of produce will go up&#8221;, the vast majority of the markup on that is NOT the laborer&#8217;s wages, but the processing, transportation and store markup and miscellaneous overhead.  Requiring minimum wage laws to be followed might raise those prices a noticable amount, but it would be something closer to 10%, and not 100% or 200%.</p>
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