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	<title>Comments on: Friends and Enemies</title>
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	<description>Making the World Safe for Liberalism</description>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2006/05/07/friends-and-enemies/comment-page-1/#comment-8919</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 May 2006 16:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=681#comment-8919</guid>
		<description>Donna in WI - 

Boy, you hit lots of nails on the head!  Your last paragraph also brings up the murky issue concerning the illegal immigrant problem. The elite pretend they are not racist, while taking selfish advantage of cheap labor, and the middle class pretend they are not racist while protesting it. 

KyCole - your story is an example of what we should be hearing on the media, not the war porn that The Heretik brings to our attention, nor the &quot;missing white women.&quot;  The experiences of the shattered families in the US and in Iraq are what we should be focusing on. But I suppose that&#039;s caving into the enemy somehow? God, we&#039;re warped.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donna in WI &#8211; </p>
<p>Boy, you hit lots of nails on the head!  Your last paragraph also brings up the murky issue concerning the illegal immigrant problem. The elite pretend they are not racist, while taking selfish advantage of cheap labor, and the middle class pretend they are not racist while protesting it. </p>
<p>KyCole &#8211; your story is an example of what we should be hearing on the media, not the war porn that The Heretik brings to our attention, nor the &#8220;missing white women.&#8221;  The experiences of the shattered families in the US and in Iraq are what we should be focusing on. But I suppose that&#8217;s caving into the enemy somehow? God, we&#8217;re warped.</p>
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		<title>By: Donna in WI</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2006/05/07/friends-and-enemies/comment-page-1/#comment-8868</link>
		<dc:creator>Donna in WI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 May 2006 14:16:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=681#comment-8868</guid>
		<description>What gets me is the average Republican citizen&#039;s twisted logic. I have Republican family, friends, and neighbors. They all go into raptures about how the good stuff isn&#039;t getting reported and how we are there to bring democracy. But when they do get called on the all the bad going down, it&#039;s &quot;We should nuke them, turn the middle east into glass!&quot; So why are we there again? If it&#039;s the high minded bringing democracy to the people, how can they be thinking of nuking them? Then they fall back on the war on terror but if you remind them that Iraq had no WMD and had nothing to do with 9/11 they basically either say that all muslims/arabs (they think anyone who is muslim is arab) are terrorists anyway or go into a sputtering rage about how I and anyone who questions Bush is anti-American.

Almost anything on the Republican/conservative agenda has to do with the inferiority and subjugation of other people. Women, gays, brown skinned people, people of other nations, and especially brown skinned people of other nations...they all need to be controlled or exterminated. It&#039;s even true of workers and consumers, we&#039;re just expendable peons. There are some average Joe conservatives who either don&#039;t understand this, refuse to believe it, agree with it but won&#039;t admit it, and then there are the bigots who embrace it heartily.

I&#039;ve heard alot of liberals argue that the Republican power brokers and politicians aren&#039;t actually racist, sexist, etc but that they are using wedge issues in a cynical way to get the base riled up. I disagree. They simply hate and fear more people than the average Republican voter. They are like the aristocracy and gentry in the Victorian ages or earlier. Their hate and fear is NOT unreasonable like the Archie Bunker types. They hate and fear anyone who is a threat to their wealth and power, which includes women, gays, brown skinned people, people of other nations, especially brown skinned people of other nations, and the worker and consumer peons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What gets me is the average Republican citizen&#8217;s twisted logic. I have Republican family, friends, and neighbors. They all go into raptures about how the good stuff isn&#8217;t getting reported and how we are there to bring democracy. But when they do get called on the all the bad going down, it&#8217;s &#8220;We should nuke them, turn the middle east into glass!&#8221; So why are we there again? If it&#8217;s the high minded bringing democracy to the people, how can they be thinking of nuking them? Then they fall back on the war on terror but if you remind them that Iraq had no WMD and had nothing to do with 9/11 they basically either say that all muslims/arabs (they think anyone who is muslim is arab) are terrorists anyway or go into a sputtering rage about how I and anyone who questions Bush is anti-American.</p>
<p>Almost anything on the Republican/conservative agenda has to do with the inferiority and subjugation of other people. Women, gays, brown skinned people, people of other nations, and especially brown skinned people of other nations&#8230;they all need to be controlled or exterminated. It&#8217;s even true of workers and consumers, we&#8217;re just expendable peons. There are some average Joe conservatives who either don&#8217;t understand this, refuse to believe it, agree with it but won&#8217;t admit it, and then there are the bigots who embrace it heartily.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard alot of liberals argue that the Republican power brokers and politicians aren&#8217;t actually racist, sexist, etc but that they are using wedge issues in a cynical way to get the base riled up. I disagree. They simply hate and fear more people than the average Republican voter. They are like the aristocracy and gentry in the Victorian ages or earlier. Their hate and fear is NOT unreasonable like the Archie Bunker types. They hate and fear anyone who is a threat to their wealth and power, which includes women, gays, brown skinned people, people of other nations, especially brown skinned people of other nations, and the worker and consumer peons.</p>
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		<title>By: KyCole</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2006/05/07/friends-and-enemies/comment-page-1/#comment-8763</link>
		<dc:creator>KyCole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 May 2006 11:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=681#comment-8763</guid>
		<description>My friend&#039;s son is a Marine who was in the Falluja mess. We went to see him in Februrary and boy was he a basket case. He is a classic example of PTSD- drinks too much, uncontrollable rages, drunken crying jags full of guilt for things he&#039;d done. Fortunately he is now getting help for that from a Christian counselor (not the Military). So now this twenty year old is trying to decide if he&#039;ll stay in the Marines. He doesn&#039;t have much money and is struggling to get by since he moved off base. He said the barracks were too dangerous- seems they&#039;ll take all kinds of creeps these days. Well, problem solved! KBR has offered this twenty year old BOY over $300,000/year to go back to Iraq if he&#039;ll work for them. His mother is furious- she barely got him back the first time- he has three purple hearts. Don&#039;t even get her started on her feelings about George Bush.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My friend&#8217;s son is a Marine who was in the Falluja mess. We went to see him in Februrary and boy was he a basket case. He is a classic example of PTSD- drinks too much, uncontrollable rages, drunken crying jags full of guilt for things he&#8217;d done. Fortunately he is now getting help for that from a Christian counselor (not the Military). So now this twenty year old is trying to decide if he&#8217;ll stay in the Marines. He doesn&#8217;t have much money and is struggling to get by since he moved off base. He said the barracks were too dangerous- seems they&#8217;ll take all kinds of creeps these days. Well, problem solved! KBR has offered this twenty year old BOY over $300,000/year to go back to Iraq if he&#8217;ll work for them. His mother is furious- she barely got him back the first time- he has three purple hearts. Don&#8217;t even get her started on her feelings about George Bush.</p>
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		<title>By: The Heretik</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2006/05/07/friends-and-enemies/comment-page-1/#comment-8475</link>
		<dc:creator>The Heretik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 May 2006 05:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=681#comment-8475</guid>
		<description>The video is what made this thing a hot topic for the right wing bloggers you link  to in this story.  It&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://theheretik.us/2006/05/07/war-porn/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; war porn&lt;/a&gt; that now fits the totally barbaric enemy narrative they pitch endlessly.  Interestingly none of these blogs had a word to say about Bahjat when she was killed back in February, when Iraq was in a flood of sectarian violence that still continues..  Oy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The video is what made this thing a hot topic for the right wing bloggers you link  to in this story.  It&#8217;s <a href="http://theheretik.us/2006/05/07/war-porn/" rel="nofollow"> war porn</a> that now fits the totally barbaric enemy narrative they pitch endlessly.  Interestingly none of these blogs had a word to say about Bahjat when she was killed back in February, when Iraq was in a flood of sectarian violence that still continues..  Oy.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2006/05/07/friends-and-enemies/comment-page-1/#comment-8445</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 May 2006 03:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=681#comment-8445</guid>
		<description>General Zinni was on Cspan this afternoon.  It was like breathing fresh air after suffocating in the presence of Rummy and all. I intend to read his book. These military guys have so much wisdom and experience. It&#039;s a tragedy for our nation that this administration did not listen to them. What a mess. One image Zinni shared was that this administration thought it was striking a spark to bring the fire of democracy into being in Iraq. Instead, they struck a spark that could torch the whole place down. I say, don&#039;t let children play with matches.
I cannot imagine how much suffering is taking place over there right now.
Donna, I&#039;m glad you&#039;re getting a sense of what&#039;s going on from some of the soldiers over there. 
Jonathan, I appreciate your valuable insights. I&#039;ve sensed the racism from the beginning. It&#039;s enough to make the head spin. 
And this tossing back and forth of whose fault it is - military, Rummy, Bush.  What are we doing about it &lt;i&gt;now&lt;/i&gt;? People are living in terror and they are continuing to die.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>General Zinni was on Cspan this afternoon.  It was like breathing fresh air after suffocating in the presence of Rummy and all. I intend to read his book. These military guys have so much wisdom and experience. It&#8217;s a tragedy for our nation that this administration did not listen to them. What a mess. One image Zinni shared was that this administration thought it was striking a spark to bring the fire of democracy into being in Iraq. Instead, they struck a spark that could torch the whole place down. I say, don&#8217;t let children play with matches.<br />
I cannot imagine how much suffering is taking place over there right now.<br />
Donna, I&#8217;m glad you&#8217;re getting a sense of what&#8217;s going on from some of the soldiers over there.<br />
Jonathan, I appreciate your valuable insights. I&#8217;ve sensed the racism from the beginning. It&#8217;s enough to make the head spin.<br />
And this tossing back and forth of whose fault it is &#8211; military, Rummy, Bush.  What are we doing about it <i>now</i>? People are living in terror and they are continuing to die.</p>
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		<title>By: A Canadian reader</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2006/05/07/friends-and-enemies/comment-page-1/#comment-8337</link>
		<dc:creator>A Canadian reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 May 2006 00:31:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=681#comment-8337</guid>
		<description>This report is one of the most chilling, horrible things I&#039;ve read.

I blame Bush (and his lackey Blair) for bringing the evil genie out of the bottle.

I blame a large chunk of the American people for their self-centred stupidity in electing and supporting a president who simply wants to make sure he and his oilmen buddies make lots of money.

I blame the Muslim world for not standing up to the ultra-violent minority amongst them who has elevated hate, torture and death to the status of religious rapture.

I wonder if there is any way to turn this behemoth of death and destruction around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This report is one of the most chilling, horrible things I&#8217;ve read.</p>
<p>I blame Bush (and his lackey Blair) for bringing the evil genie out of the bottle.</p>
<p>I blame a large chunk of the American people for their self-centred stupidity in electing and supporting a president who simply wants to make sure he and his oilmen buddies make lots of money.</p>
<p>I blame the Muslim world for not standing up to the ultra-violent minority amongst them who has elevated hate, torture and death to the status of religious rapture.</p>
<p>I wonder if there is any way to turn this behemoth of death and destruction around.</p>
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		<title>By: Donna</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2006/05/07/friends-and-enemies/comment-page-1/#comment-8322</link>
		<dc:creator>Donna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 May 2006 00:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=681#comment-8322</guid>
		<description>I have had conversations with a couple of military guys who have been in Iraq.  One, who was never off a US base except to drive to the base, said it was &#039;just a great and fun place&#039; and he &#039;felt so very alive there&#039;. 

The other said his unit spent most of their time as  protectors of KBR [Halliburton sub], except for some now and then meaningless [his word] drive-around patrols which he guessed were sort of &#039;to show muscle&#039;. He very clearly said, &quot;We do not belong there.&quot;
 
What I did not know until he told me was that the US military has a rule that all Iraqi traffic has to get out of the way whenever our guys are traveling....and that our soldiers are to automatically shoot any Iraqi who gets within so many meters. This includes any on-coming traffic across a median.  When I asked him if all the Iraqis clearly understood the &#039;new US rules of their roads&#039;, he said sheepishly that he thought so...then went on to say that his unit did not automatically shoot those too near....first they just shot toward that vehicle.  He thought that those who got too near were just &#039;playing chicken&#039; and would usually scramble away when the shots began.  
He had a laptop full of pictures, some of which I wish I had not seen.  This whole thing hurts my heart.  Both these soldiers are fine guys......I cannot fathom letting them die in order to &#039;protect KBR&#039; or &#039;drive patrols to show muscle&#039; or use bullets to enforce occupier rules of the road that lower Iraqis to second-tier status on their own roads in their own country.

 America has to have a deep reckoning about our energy future, and decide whether we want to keep on strong-arming whole populations  like this to acquire permanent military bases and control of oil-rich countries.   

The righties want to say that we are there to fight evil terrorists..... I don&#039;t believe that is why we are staying there....... the violence such as the horror against the journalist Atwar [what a name] would not be happening if we were really there to &#039;stabilize and protect the country&#039;, because our troops would be busy on patrols to actually protect Iraqis instead of just showing muscle and protecting  American corporations ........ it has always been about oil, and the terrorism issue is the perfect cover story for folks who idolize Bush and who will use any new atrocity to reinforce their head in the sand posture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have had conversations with a couple of military guys who have been in Iraq.  One, who was never off a US base except to drive to the base, said it was &#8216;just a great and fun place&#8217; and he &#8216;felt so very alive there&#8217;. </p>
<p>The other said his unit spent most of their time as  protectors of KBR [Halliburton sub], except for some now and then meaningless [his word] drive-around patrols which he guessed were sort of &#8216;to show muscle&#8217;. He very clearly said, &#8220;We do not belong there.&#8221;</p>
<p>What I did not know until he told me was that the US military has a rule that all Iraqi traffic has to get out of the way whenever our guys are traveling&#8230;.and that our soldiers are to automatically shoot any Iraqi who gets within so many meters. This includes any on-coming traffic across a median.  When I asked him if all the Iraqis clearly understood the &#8216;new US rules of their roads&#8217;, he said sheepishly that he thought so&#8230;then went on to say that his unit did not automatically shoot those too near&#8230;.first they just shot toward that vehicle.  He thought that those who got too near were just &#8216;playing chicken&#8217; and would usually scramble away when the shots began.<br />
He had a laptop full of pictures, some of which I wish I had not seen.  This whole thing hurts my heart.  Both these soldiers are fine guys&#8230;&#8230;I cannot fathom letting them die in order to &#8216;protect KBR&#8217; or &#8216;drive patrols to show muscle&#8217; or use bullets to enforce occupier rules of the road that lower Iraqis to second-tier status on their own roads in their own country.</p>
<p> America has to have a deep reckoning about our energy future, and decide whether we want to keep on strong-arming whole populations  like this to acquire permanent military bases and control of oil-rich countries.   </p>
<p>The righties want to say that we are there to fight evil terrorists&#8230;.. I don&#8217;t believe that is why we are staying there&#8230;&#8230;. the violence such as the horror against the journalist Atwar [what a name] would not be happening if we were really there to &#8217;stabilize and protect the country&#8217;, because our troops would be busy on patrols to actually protect Iraqis instead of just showing muscle and protecting  American corporations &#8230;&#8230;.. it has always been about oil, and the terrorism issue is the perfect cover story for folks who idolize Bush and who will use any new atrocity to reinforce their head in the sand posture.</p>
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		<title>By: Swami</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2006/05/07/friends-and-enemies/comment-page-1/#comment-8311</link>
		<dc:creator>Swami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 May 2006 23:34:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=681#comment-8311</guid>
		<description>As far as I&#039;m concerned, all of this blood is on Bush&#039;s hands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I&#8217;m concerned, all of this blood is on Bush&#8217;s hands.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Versen</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2006/05/07/friends-and-enemies/comment-page-1/#comment-8288</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Versen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 May 2006 23:03:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=681#comment-8288</guid>
		<description>The overwhelming majority of Iraqis are &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; members of death squads, whether shi&#039;a or sunni or what have you. They&#039;re just the ordinary people that history hardly ever talks about, riding out the storm and trying to stay out of the crossfire.

 It&#039;s difficult to escape the underlying racism of  so many of the war supporters on the right: these people need us to teach them what a civil society is like, and when our (deliberately bungled and undermanned) efforts to do so don&#039;t pan out, it must be because they&#039;re irredeemably savage. 

That&#039;s one of the reasons George,Jr trotted out the exporting democracy spiel after it had become pretty obvious that there were no WMDs: many people who supported him undoubtedly began to feel a certain unfocused guilt about having supported an unjustifiable war, and needed to have their doubts about heir own motives and their character assuaged. Who says he&#039;s dumb?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The overwhelming majority of Iraqis are <i>not</i> members of death squads, whether shi&#8217;a or sunni or what have you. They&#8217;re just the ordinary people that history hardly ever talks about, riding out the storm and trying to stay out of the crossfire.</p>
<p> It&#8217;s difficult to escape the underlying racism of  so many of the war supporters on the right: these people need us to teach them what a civil society is like, and when our (deliberately bungled and undermanned) efforts to do so don&#8217;t pan out, it must be because they&#8217;re irredeemably savage. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s one of the reasons George,Jr trotted out the exporting democracy spiel after it had become pretty obvious that there were no WMDs: many people who supported him undoubtedly began to feel a certain unfocused guilt about having supported an unjustifiable war, and needed to have their doubts about heir own motives and their character assuaged. Who says he&#8217;s dumb?</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Raicer</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2006/05/07/friends-and-enemies/comment-page-1/#comment-8285</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Raicer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 May 2006 22:44:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=681#comment-8285</guid>
		<description>Actually there are clear good guys and bad guys in Iraq. The tortured and murdered journalist was on the side of good, and her killers on the side of evil. Unfortunately for the Bushiviks (and for the US, and the Iraqis themselves) the US isn&#039;t fighting on her side (or theirs). Or even ours. Having blundred into Iraq without a plan beyond &quot;things will go wonderfully&quot; the Bushiviks have placed our military in a situation where we are accomplishing nothing, other than an increased body count. One hopes for the sake of the Iraqis the good guys will ultimately prevail. But the US military cannot, and it is past time to bring them home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually there are clear good guys and bad guys in Iraq. The tortured and murdered journalist was on the side of good, and her killers on the side of evil. Unfortunately for the Bushiviks (and for the US, and the Iraqis themselves) the US isn&#8217;t fighting on her side (or theirs). Or even ours. Having blundred into Iraq without a plan beyond &#8220;things will go wonderfully&#8221; the Bushiviks have placed our military in a situation where we are accomplishing nothing, other than an increased body count. One hopes for the sake of the Iraqis the good guys will ultimately prevail. But the US military cannot, and it is past time to bring them home.</p>
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