Comments on: Identity Crises http://www.mahablog.com/2006/07/08/identity-crises/ Exposing the ugly truths about the Bush Administration. Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:29:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1.3 by: Andy http://www.mahablog.com/2006/07/08/identity-crises/#comment-527471 Sun, 02 Mar 2008 13:56:04 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2006/07/08/identity-crises/#comment-527471 The English people are most definately starting to proclaim their identity as English and not British,since the devolution of scotland and wales we English have been subjected to a blizzard of attacks on our nationhood,one govt minister even went so far as to say in a speech that there was no such nation as the English,that came as quite a shock to the 50million or so people who class themselves as English.further to that the so called celtic countries,scotland wales and northern ireland have made it quite clear that they do not consider themselves to be British,they make plain their hate for the English(while holding out the begging bowl for English subsidies,scotland alone gets some 20 billion dollars a year in subsidies)and this and other factors such as the shameful pandering to militant islam at the expense of English custom and culture, rampant immigration which the native English have been denied a say about,the constant lying from the govt about the EU has all contributed to the rise of the new English nationalism and sense of identity. The English people are most definately starting to proclaim their identity as English and not British,since the devolution of scotland and wales we English have been subjected to a blizzard of attacks on our nationhood,one govt minister even went so far as to say in a speech that there was no such nation as the English,that came as quite a shock to the 50million or so people who class themselves as English.further to that the so called celtic countries,scotland wales and northern ireland have made it quite clear that they do not consider themselves to be British,they make plain their hate for the English(while holding out the begging bowl for English subsidies,scotland alone gets some 20 billion dollars a year in subsidies)and this and other factors such as the shameful pandering to militant islam at the expense of English custom and culture, rampant immigration which the native English have been denied a say about,the constant lying from the govt about the EU has all contributed to the rise of the new English nationalism and sense of identity.

]]> by: Michael http://www.mahablog.com/2006/07/08/identity-crises/#comment-64515 Mon, 01 Jan 2007 15:54:14 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2006/07/08/identity-crises/#comment-64515 AS a proud Welsh and Brittish man, something that has always frustrated me is how Americans constantly refer to Britain as England, and the British as English. It saddens me that their arrogance, however unintended and well meaning, has caused many millions in America to lose sight of what a great contribution Wales and the Welsh have made to America. For example, and this is just a small example: Thomas Jefferson was asecond generation welshman, and is rumoured to have spoken Welsh. Jefferson Davies was of very strong Welsh decent as was obviously his Welsh born second wife. 17 of the 50 odd signers of the dec. of. indep. were welsh or of welsh decent- by far the largest ethnic group. Yale and Harvard were founded by Welshmen. As was the state of Penn. Many other Presidents and Generals were Welsh. And to this day the US census has it that over 2 million Americans still consider themselfes Welsh Americans. AS a proud Welsh and Brittish man, something that has always frustrated me is how Americans constantly refer to Britain as England, and the British as English. It saddens me that their arrogance, however unintended and well meaning, has caused many millions in America to lose sight of what a great contribution Wales and the Welsh have made to America. For example, and this is just a small example: Thomas Jefferson was asecond generation welshman, and is rumoured to have spoken Welsh. Jefferson Davies was of very strong Welsh decent as was obviously his Welsh born second wife. 17 of the 50 odd signers of the dec. of. indep. were welsh or of welsh decent- by far the largest ethnic group. Yale and Harvard were founded by Welshmen. As was the state of Penn. Many other Presidents and Generals were Welsh. And to this day the US census has it that over 2 million Americans still consider themselfes Welsh Americans.

]]> by: Silurian http://www.mahablog.com/2006/07/08/identity-crises/#comment-18895 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 06:55:57 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2006/07/08/identity-crises/#comment-18895 Re: Brit's! Chief...Your description of the origin of the Name 'POME' is wrong! Firstly, It isn't the British! It's the English in particular that are referred to as 'Pommes' &/or 'Limie's!' And this stems from the english empire's ocean trotting day's when english officer's would insist on their crew consuming 'potatoe's & lime's' (for the starch & citrus etc.) during long journey's like to Australia & NZ & back as this would prevent illness's such as scurvy etc. ('Pomme' comes from the French word for Potato - Pomme de Terre!) As for the 'Prisoner Of Mother England' bit, that would be strange as NZ & Australia where penal colonies to the english and thus anybody who did not give way to the english crown or remain subservient (for the most part the Welsh, Scot's & Irish!) were sent there on prison ships! Therefore, the prisoners of mother england would be the ancesters of most white Australian's & Kiwi's!!! Re: Brit’s!
Chief…Your description of the origin of the Name ‘POME’ is wrong!
Firstly, It isn’t the British! It’s the English in particular that are referred to as ‘Pommes’ &/or ‘Limie’s!’ And this stems from the english empire’s ocean trotting day’s when english officer’s would insist on their crew consuming ‘potatoe’s & lime’s’ (for the starch & citrus etc.) during long journey’s like to Australia & NZ & back as this would prevent illness’s such as scurvy etc. (’Pomme’ comes from the French word for Potato - Pomme de Terre!) As for the ‘Prisoner Of Mother England’ bit, that would be strange as NZ & Australia where penal colonies to the english and thus anybody who did not give way to the english crown or remain subservient (for the most part the Welsh, Scot’s & Irish!) were sent there on prison ships! Therefore, the prisoners of mother england would be the ancesters of most white Australian’s & Kiwi’s!!!

]]> by: maha http://www.mahablog.com/2006/07/08/identity-crises/#comment-18870 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 03:20:47 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2006/07/08/identity-crises/#comment-18870 <i>They just aren’t into long, noisy outpourings of grief, panic or whatnot the way we Americans are.</i> I seem to remember they were pretty demonstrative when Diana died. Also, <em>English</em> jingoism has had some nasty effects on many of the nations they occupied. Ask the Welsh. They just aren’t into long, noisy outpourings of grief, panic or whatnot the way we Americans are.

I seem to remember they were pretty demonstrative when Diana died. Also, English jingoism has had some nasty effects on many of the nations they occupied. Ask the Welsh.

]]> by: Kaleberg http://www.mahablog.com/2006/07/08/identity-crises/#comment-18865 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 02:52:26 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2006/07/08/identity-crises/#comment-18865 The British have long been much less demonstrative than the peoples of many other nations. They just aren't into long, noisy outpourings of grief, panic or whatnot the way we Americans are. Remember WWII. Life went on during the Blitz. That was the whole British thing. Yes, you were being bombed, get over it. Are you dead? No, then get to work, go out and party. George Orwell had some good essays on this, but I think it was Bruce McCall, the parodist, who put it best with his London Times headline coverage of the bombing of Parliament, "Temper, Temper, Mr. Hitler". The British have always been much less jingo that most nations. Some speculate that this is because they had a naval empire, so there was little military presence visible. Soldiers rarely wore uniform off duty. In fact, even during war time, you'd get pubs with signs saying "no redcoats". Kipling had a fair bit to say about that. While Americans and many others glory in tales of conquest and victory, the Brits tend to think of that as bragging. Anyone who reads British battle poetry, try the Anglo Saxon Battle of Beornenborg or The Charge of the Light Brigade, would think that the Brits were military incompetents. Of course, anyone looking at a map of the empire would realize otherwise. The British have long been much less demonstrative than the peoples of many other nations. They just aren’t into long, noisy outpourings of grief, panic or whatnot the way we Americans are. Remember WWII. Life went on during the Blitz. That was the whole British thing. Yes, you were being bombed, get over it. Are you dead? No, then get to work, go out and party. George Orwell had some good essays on this, but I think it was Bruce McCall, the parodist, who put it best with his London Times headline coverage of the bombing of Parliament, “Temper, Temper, Mr. Hitler”.

The British have always been much less jingo that most nations. Some speculate that this is because they had a naval empire, so there was little military presence visible. Soldiers rarely wore uniform off duty. In fact, even during war time, you’d get pubs with signs saying “no redcoats”. Kipling had a fair bit to say about that.

While Americans and many others glory in tales of conquest and victory, the Brits tend to think of that as bragging. Anyone who reads British battle poetry, try the Anglo Saxon Battle of Beornenborg or The Charge of the Light Brigade, would think that the Brits were military incompetents. Of course, anyone looking at a map of the empire would realize otherwise.

]]> by: Chief http://www.mahablog.com/2006/07/08/identity-crises/#comment-18608 Sun, 09 Jul 2006 11:50:10 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2006/07/08/identity-crises/#comment-18608 Maha, brilliant post. Re: Brits. I have never been to the British Isles but have spent some time in New Zealand. The Kiwis have a term for those that are too-o-o-o British. The term is POME ( pronounced: Pom-ey) which means Prisoner of Mother England. It is said with a dismissive tone of voice. Re: Muslims. My understanding after reading Karen Armstrong's "Islam: A Short History" is that (I paraphrase) a muslim is a man or a woman who has made this submission (surrender) of their entire being to Allah and his demand that human beings behave to one another with justice, equity and compassion. So it is not surprising that the ummah tugs hardest at their heartstrings. Maha, brilliant post.

Re: Brits. I have never been to the British Isles but have spent some time in New Zealand. The Kiwis have a term for those that are too-o-o-o British. The term is POME ( pronounced: Pom-ey) which means Prisoner of Mother England. It is said with a dismissive tone of voice.

Re: Muslims. My understanding after reading Karen Armstrong’s “Islam: A Short History” is that (I paraphrase) a muslim is a man or a woman who has made this submission (surrender) of their entire being to Allah and his demand that human beings behave to one another with justice, equity and compassion.

So it is not surprising that the ummah tugs hardest at their heartstrings.

]]> by: Doug Hughes http://www.mahablog.com/2006/07/08/identity-crises/#comment-18564 Sun, 09 Jul 2006 00:33:15 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2006/07/08/identity-crises/#comment-18564 "What are the 13 percent so angry about?" maha That's a brilliant question. I heard that a recent poll in Iraq set at 80% - the number who think it's OK to kill Americans in Iraq. The number who disapproved of our occupation was high before Abu Gherig (sorry if I spelled it wrong) and before the murder of 24 unarmed civilians in reprisal for a roadside bomb and before the gang rape of a young Iraqi woman, and her murder with her parents and 5 year old sister. They were angry before they were told that the ex-soldier who masterminded the rape-murder will NOT be extradited. (Imagine if it was an American woman and her family and the perp was from France? Would you be satisfied to let the French try the case?) To understand their feelings, you have to understand they are still living the crusades over there like a VERY few Southerners still live the Civil War. The occupation and brutal murders of Muslims by Christians is not the subject of talk around a cracker barrel. They are still angry; still bent on getting even, and every infraction by the US proves in their minds that WE are the barbarians and nothing has changed since the Middle Ages. Before someone takes me wrong. I am a veteran. The vast majority of GIs who go over there intend to prove to the Muslim world that we have no malice or evil intentions. They walk into a brick wall. An unknown 'terrorist' detonates a BIG underground IED that are so well concealed that the locals HAD to have seen the bomb being planted. If your buddy gets turned into a new pizza topping in the same neighborhood where you came through with food and medical help last week, your attitude changes. The folks who smiled and accepted charity did NOTHING to save your comrade. Most GIs will not go postal and blow away civilians, but the love and mercy thing evaporates, too. That gets lost in the rhetoric. For me it's not hard. In the Declaration of Independence it says as a general principle governments "deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed" . So in Iraq, the voting majority shoud be the ones to decide what Congress, the President and the Iraqi governments are debating. The Prez is so damn happy about democracy there let them decide in an election 2 questions. When shoud the Americans start to leave? When should the departure be final? Let it be a multiple choice selection and let it be binding. I am willing to be bound by the outcome. “What are the 13 percent so angry about?” maha

That’s a brilliant question. I heard that a recent poll in Iraq set at 80% - the number who think it’s OK to kill Americans in Iraq. The number who disapproved of our occupation was high before Abu Gherig (sorry if I spelled it wrong) and before the murder of 24 unarmed civilians in reprisal for a roadside bomb and before the gang rape of a young Iraqi woman, and her murder with her parents and 5 year old sister. They were angry before they were told that the ex-soldier who masterminded the rape-murder will NOT be extradited. (Imagine if it was an American woman and her family and the perp was from France? Would you be satisfied to let the French try the case?)

To understand their feelings, you have to understand they are still living the crusades over there like a VERY few Southerners still live the Civil War. The occupation and brutal murders of Muslims by Christians is not the subject of talk around a cracker barrel. They are still angry; still bent on getting even, and every infraction by the US proves in their minds that WE are the barbarians and nothing has changed since the Middle Ages.

Before someone takes me wrong. I am a veteran. The vast majority of GIs who go over there intend to prove to the Muslim world that we have no malice or evil intentions. They walk into a brick wall. An unknown ‘terrorist’ detonates a BIG underground IED that are so well concealed that the locals HAD to have seen the bomb being planted. If your buddy gets turned into a new pizza topping in the same neighborhood where you came through with food and medical help last week, your attitude changes. The folks who smiled and accepted charity did NOTHING to save your comrade. Most GIs will not go postal and blow away civilians, but the love and mercy thing evaporates, too. That gets lost in the rhetoric.

For me it’s not hard. In the Declaration of Independence it says as a general principle governments “deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed” . So in Iraq, the voting majority shoud be the ones to decide what Congress, the President and the Iraqi governments are debating. The Prez is so damn happy about democracy there let them decide in an election 2 questions. When shoud the Americans start to leave? When should the departure be final? Let it be a multiple choice selection and let it be binding.

I am willing to be bound by the outcome.

]]> by: Avedon http://www.mahablog.com/2006/07/08/identity-crises/#comment-18561 Sat, 08 Jul 2006 23:53:51 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2006/07/08/identity-crises/#comment-18561 I think the unofficial British anthem is probably "Jerusalem" (or maybe "Rule Brittania"). I'd prefer "Land of Hope and Glory" - Elgar really hated chauvinism and that sort of thing, and anyway, it's a good piece of music. I think the unofficial British anthem is probably “Jerusalem” (or maybe “Rule Brittania”). I’d prefer “Land of Hope and Glory” - Elgar really hated chauvinism and that sort of thing, and anyway, it’s a good piece of music.

]]> by: Dan S. http://www.mahablog.com/2006/07/08/identity-crises/#comment-18560 Sat, 08 Jul 2006 23:35:48 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2006/07/08/identity-crises/#comment-18560 Even if the post never mentioned Malkin, it would put her to shame just by virtue of existing, and the implicit contrast between the two reactions . . . Even if the post never mentioned Malkin, it would put her to shame just by virtue of existing, and the implicit contrast between the two reactions . . .

]]> by: lilybelle http://www.mahablog.com/2006/07/08/identity-crises/#comment-18555 Sat, 08 Jul 2006 22:28:17 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2006/07/08/identity-crises/#comment-18555 Absolutely brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

]]>