Comments on: Countercultural http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/countercultural/ Exposing the ugly truths about the Bush Administration. Sat, 11 Oct 2008 09:34:54 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1.3 by: The Mahablog » Don’t Blame McGovern II http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/countercultural/#comment-40858 Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:04:47 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/countercultural/#comment-40858 [...] As I wrote in the first “Don’t Blame McGovern” post, McGovern’s campaign sank because of events and issues other than Vietnam. Chief among these was race and the emergence of the New Left, which helped Nixon a whole lot more than it helped McGovern. (See also “Hey, Hey, LBJ,” and “Countercultural.”) [...] […] As I wrote in the first “Don’t Blame McGovern” post, McGovern’s campaign sank because of events and issues other than Vietnam. Chief among these was race and the emergence of the New Left, which helped Nixon a whole lot more than it helped McGovern. (See also “Hey, Hey, LBJ,” and “Countercultural.”) […]

]]> by: maha http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/countercultural/#comment-25191 Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:00:55 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/countercultural/#comment-25191 Serial catowners: I discussed Nixon-McGovern in more detail in another post: http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/dont-blame-mcgovern/ Serial catowners: I discussed Nixon-McGovern in more detail in another post:

http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/dont-blame-mcgovern/

]]> by: serial catowner http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/countercultural/#comment-25147 Sat, 12 Aug 2006 16:41:11 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/countercultural/#comment-25147 Studying polls won't explain much. Younger readers will not remember big cities with police and fire departments that refused to hire women or non-whites, political machines run by bosses who worked with labor bosses, racial struggle in which black people were openly killed by police and cities burned.... At the time, the only free press was a handful of "hippie" newspapers in major cities. The big city dailies were squarely in the back pockets of urban elites who only differed in degree (if that) from the mob politicians in how the rest of us should be handled. And of course, Nixon trying to stimulate protest against himself, and on occasion waiting for a larger angry mob to form so the photos of him "under fire" would be more dramatic. Let's hope that those who failed to learn from history are not doomed to repeat it. Studying polls won’t explain much. Younger readers will not remember big cities with police and fire departments that refused to hire women or non-whites, political machines run by bosses who worked with labor bosses, racial struggle in which black people were openly killed by police and cities burned….

At the time, the only free press was a handful of “hippie” newspapers in major cities. The big city dailies were squarely in the back pockets of urban elites who only differed in degree (if that) from the mob politicians in how the rest of us should be handled.

And of course, Nixon trying to stimulate protest against himself, and on occasion waiting for a larger angry mob to form so the photos of him “under fire” would be more dramatic.

Let’s hope that those who failed to learn from history are not doomed to repeat it.

]]> by: John http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/countercultural/#comment-24901 Sat, 12 Aug 2006 00:29:34 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/countercultural/#comment-24901 I think that the Democrats' losses in 1968 and 1972 need to be seen in the context of the racial politics of the 1960s and 1970s as well. The party was deserted by Dixiecrats upset over the civil rights legislation passed under the Johnson administration. Nixon was able to exploit this discontent to realign southern states - a traditional Democratic stronghold - into the Republican ranks for the rest of the century. Today that wound is not as fresh. I think that the Democrats’ losses in 1968 and 1972 need to be seen in the context of the racial politics of the 1960s and 1970s as well. The party was deserted by Dixiecrats upset over the civil rights legislation passed under the Johnson administration. Nixon was able to exploit this discontent to realign southern states - a traditional Democratic stronghold - into the Republican ranks for the rest of the century. Today that wound is not as fresh.

]]> by: cshell http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/countercultural/#comment-24840 Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:19:25 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/countercultural/#comment-24840 I think people should remember that if it wasn't for CREEP's dirty watergate-related dirty tricks Muskie might well have been nominated. Could Nixon have beat Muskie? Perhaps - but he was the one they were scared of. He was anti-war but not as closely identified with the counter-culture that americans resented more than the war. I think people should remember that if it wasn’t for CREEP’s dirty watergate-related dirty tricks Muskie might well have been nominated. Could Nixon have beat Muskie? Perhaps - but he was the one they were scared of. He was anti-war but not as closely identified with the counter-culture that americans resented more than the war.

]]> by: Suburban Guerrilla » History and Why It Isn’t Repeating Itself http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/countercultural/#comment-24763 Fri, 11 Aug 2006 13:07:38 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/countercultural/#comment-24763 [...] at the Mahablog on the real reason McGovern lost. Permalink¦ [...] […] at the Mahablog on the real reason McGovern lost. Permalink| […]

]]> by: Swami http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/countercultural/#comment-24653 Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:05:44 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/countercultural/#comment-24653 <i> “Every Senator in this Chamber is partly responsible for sending 50,000 young Americans to an early grave. This Chamber reeks of blood.” — George McGovern</i> He was telling the truth..We need men of honesty to speak so boldly today about the situation in Iraq. But what do we get?...cut and run, stay the course, or we're surrendering to al Qaida. Sorry to say that in 1972 my mind wasn't functioning very well and I was on automatic patriot. Alcohol was good,marijuana was bad,military haircut was good, long hair was un-American. I was a brownshirt for Nixon's America..it felt moral. “Every Senator in this Chamber is partly responsible for sending 50,000 young Americans to an early grave. This Chamber reeks of blood.” — George McGovern

He was telling the truth..We need men of honesty to speak so boldly today about the situation in Iraq. But what do we get?…cut and run, stay the course, or we’re surrendering to al Qaida.

Sorry to say that in 1972 my mind wasn’t functioning very well and I was on automatic patriot. Alcohol was good,marijuana was bad,military haircut was good, long hair was un-American. I was a brownshirt for Nixon’s America..it felt moral.

]]> by: moonbat http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/countercultural/#comment-24650 Fri, 11 Aug 2006 00:51:36 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/countercultural/#comment-24650 Appreciated the McGovern piece. He briefly visited my hometown during the 1972 campaign, which was the first speech I ever heard by a major politician. I was young and was captivated, and I remember writing a wistfully glowing piece about the event for an English class. I was crushed when he only took Massachusetts in the fall election. I think a reprise of his "Come Home, America" slogan could be a great slogan in the hands of the right politician. I also expect McGovern's reputation to be rehabilitated in the coming years. It's amazing to see such a positive and candid article in <i>The American Conservative</i>. Thanks for the link. Appreciated the McGovern piece. He briefly visited my hometown during the 1972 campaign, which was the first speech I ever heard by a major politician. I was young and was captivated, and I remember writing a wistfully glowing piece about the event for an English class. I was crushed when he only took Massachusetts in the fall election.

I think a reprise of his “Come Home, America” slogan could be a great slogan in the hands of the right politician. I also expect McGovern’s reputation to be rehabilitated in the coming years. It’s amazing to see such a positive and candid article in The American Conservative. Thanks for the link.

]]> by: Craig http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/countercultural/#comment-24646 Fri, 11 Aug 2006 00:29:05 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/countercultural/#comment-24646 Another thoughtful post. At the end of the day, the issue for me is how to effectively communicate to people that our government is broken and that our foreign policy is not just broken but extremely dangerous to ourselves. I'm a liberal Democrat but I used to go to sleep when Republicans won an election because, although I disagreed with their policies, I figured they couldn't damage things too much. That's no longer the case. The radicals are now on the far right and they more or less control the country. But again, how do we break through the Republican public relations machine? I see progress but we're once again up against an election. Is it enough to ask people to stop pretending that George W. Bush knows what he's doing? Is it enough to ask people to elect a Congress that will demand action instead of sitting on their hands every time the president blunders or breaks a law? I don't know the answer. Not everything about the 60s was a mistake but I agree the huge demonstrations, the riots, the stunts, and the overt political manipulations on the left often backfired. But my Republican parents are on Medicare, a product of the 1960s, and they will tell you that it's a good thing. In the end, there's no good substitute for good communication but I'm not sure what it means except some patience in the act of communication is required and that's difficult when things are not going well. Another thoughtful post.

At the end of the day, the issue for me is how to effectively communicate to people that our government is broken and that our foreign policy is not just broken but extremely dangerous to ourselves.

I’m a liberal Democrat but I used to go to sleep when Republicans won an election because, although I disagreed with their policies, I figured they couldn’t damage things too much. That’s no longer the case. The radicals are now on the far right and they more or less control the country.

But again, how do we break through the Republican public relations machine? I see progress but we’re once again up against an election.

Is it enough to ask people to stop pretending that George W. Bush knows what he’s doing?

Is it enough to ask people to elect a Congress that will demand action instead of sitting on their hands every time the president blunders or breaks a law?

I don’t know the answer. Not everything about the 60s was a mistake but I agree the huge demonstrations, the riots, the stunts, and the overt political manipulations on the left often backfired. But my Republican parents are on Medicare, a product of the 1960s, and they will tell you that it’s a good thing.

In the end, there’s no good substitute for good communication but I’m not sure what it means except some patience in the act of communication is required and that’s difficult when things are not going well.

]]> by: grayslady http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/countercultural/#comment-24643 Fri, 11 Aug 2006 00:23:05 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2006/08/10/countercultural/#comment-24643 Ditto Maha and Jack K. As someone who was in her early 20's during the Vietnam War protest era, I freely admit being opposed to the war and equally opposed to the appearance of the anti-war protestors. There was no "group" for me to join to protest the war openly. This time, however, as I stood outside a local Catholic church, as part of a candlelight vigil to protest the invasion of Iraq, I was joined by very ordinary suburbanites, many with their children. We need to give a face to the angry suburbanites known to many in the traditional media as the "angry left". Ditto Maha and Jack K. As someone who was in her early 20’s during the Vietnam War protest era, I freely admit being opposed to the war and equally opposed to the appearance of the anti-war protestors. There was no “group” for me to join to protest the war openly. This time, however, as I stood outside a local Catholic church, as part of a candlelight vigil to protest the invasion of Iraq, I was joined by very ordinary suburbanites, many with their children. We need to give a face to the angry suburbanites known to many in the traditional media as the “angry left”.

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