16 Comments

1. Tom Hilton  •  Aug 29, 2006 @3:29 pm
   

   The ’second Mexican-American War’ thing is Glenn Spencer’s baby. As usual, David Neiwert has the goods on him.

2. a517dogg  •  Aug 29, 2006 @3:46 pm
   

   “At this group we shall engage in polite scholarly discussions regarding when, if and how war with Mexico will take place.”

   Join. I dare you. ; ) What’s the worst that could happen?

3. Swami  •  Aug 29, 2006 @3:53 pm
   

   Off topic..But…In unusually explicit terms, Rumsfeld portrayed the administration’s critics as suffering from “moral or intellectual confusion” about what threatens the nation’s security and accused them of lacking the courage to fight back.

   scholarly dissussions?.. yeah, ¡Viva Zapata!

4. maha  •  Aug 29, 2006 @4:06 pm
   

   ¡Viva Zapata!

   LOL!

5. felicity smith  •  Aug 29, 2006 @5:20 pm
   

   Brings to mind what Ben Franklin (I think it was he) said about the “invasion” of Germans into Pennsylvania. Everything from we would all end up speaking German to our economy would be based on sausages. Was it Shakespeare who said there’s nothing new under the sun?

6. Tom Hilton  •  Aug 29, 2006 @5:50 pm
   

   Ecclesiastes 1:9 (King James): “The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.”

   But he was probably just repeating something he heard somebody else say. And plenty of other people said the same basic thing after him, including (IIRC) Goethe.

7. yellowdog democrat  •  Aug 29, 2006 @7:51 pm
   

   Republican strategy divide ande conquer. Have the poor Americans fight the poor Mexicans. The rich corporations will be the winner.

8. sisyphus  •  Aug 29, 2006 @8:17 pm
   

   Buchanan yesterday said we should have a “white only” immigration policy.
   Racism never dies/

9. biggerbox  •  Aug 29, 2006 @8:55 pm
   

   Hey, cool! Is that one of those science-fiction fan sites, where you talk about alternate realities? Like, what if the South had won the Civil War, or what if space aliens invaded in the middle of WW II? Or where they write new Star Trek stories?

   “We acknowledge the following points: 1. The Federation is being invaded by the Cardassia. 2. Cardassians are helping Romulan terrorists to sneak into Federation star systems. 3. Cardassians intend to reclaim Bajor and Deep Space Nine. Discuss.”

10. justme  •  Aug 29, 2006 @11:07 pm
    

    Oh my……Isn’t there any voice of reason inbetween “the next mexican war” and making excuses (however true) for those from Mexico who are here illegally?

    How about we consider what we can do here to make Mexico a place where people can stay instead of needing to abandon their nation to feed their family?Is the entire population going to end up here in order to make a living?Where does it end? When mexico is empty? When we are even more bankrupt???

    Which brings me to my next point.I understand the point of view of those who think we should not be so hard on those here illegally because they are only trying to make a living but then lets have a plan to deal with the influx we are allowing by not enforcing the law…if even a fraction of Mexico’s population is going to come here, legally or illegally shouldn’t we at least have a plan to provide for all the new folks????Most work hard, but many will need help and even those who work hard may fall upon hard times and/or illness…can we figure out how we are going to afford to care for these folks,,, could we even talk about it maybe at some point as a nation?Now that we have millions that put us in that potential situation maybe it might be a good time???…and speaking of plans,,,, my final point…..

    Why don’t we have a immigration policy in this country that is smart???What the hell kind of plan is it that won’t allow LEGAL immigration for the reasons of compassion , yet they turn the other way while the law is violated???

    I have not come to any conclusions about what is right about this issue, so understand I am only asking questions but if illegal immigrants are due compassion and should be allowed to stay shouldn’t the government fix immigration law rather than leave them illegal and the burden of the taxpayer to support?

    Here in Iowa we have had many illegal immigrants die..some died in crowded train cars, some in car accidents in packed vans, many in hospital ER’s after waiting too long to seek help when they are ill…every story seems sadder that the one before it…but after the sad part comes the reality…I am ashamed to tell you all this but our state is poor..everytime a death occurs our state foots the bill and it causes a crisis about where we will come up with the money to fund it.Some bodies we have even paid to send back to mexico …I don’t mean to sound mean about the death of my fellow man but in our state the cost is adding up…I think we should send the federal government the bill ..since they have not enforced the law on over 11 million occasions(add that to the list of failure) and they have failed to come up with a plan to deal with all of the people here on a illegal basis why should their failure burden states?

    It is time we all sit down and look for solutions to this problem. Human beings lives are at stake and just looking the other way as they come in illegally and then telling them they are on their own.This is NO PLAN fit for human beings.And it is no way to treat taxpayers either…so let me just say..where is the voice of reason with regard to this topic?And aint it a shame we didn’t have a plan BEFORE it came to this?

    Neocons would plot war with themselves if there were no one else…lets just hope at some point they crawl back under the rock from which they came,,,but I guess that is not poilite discussion…it is too close to being truth.

11. justme  •  Aug 29, 2006 @11:11 pm
    

    P.S..By a plan to deal with, I meant to say to deal with their needs…sorry if I caused a misunderstanding about my intent.

12. gimmeabreak  •  Aug 29, 2006 @11:53 pm
    

    Sounds to me like someone has gotten WAY too involved with Buchanan’s new book. On that subject, I have been amazed how that guy has been going on all the talk shows discussing “white” and “European” values as risk and not being called on it by one, single interviewer (with the exception of Rachel Maddow on AAR – but she has like 4 listeners). I’m still astounded on the ever-increasing racist rhetoric on the mainstream airwaves and open discourse in this country.

13. moonbat  •  Aug 29, 2006 @11:59 pm
    

    I’m with you justme on having a reasonable discussion about immigration. I don’t know if such a thing is possible in the current climate. I also don’t have a strong personal opinion in the argument.

    I do know that in my state, California, it’s a gigantic issue. On one side are the Minutemen and their ilk who want to build a great wall along our southern border, creating Fortress America, the ultimate gated community. While I’m not into third world poverty, it frightens me to be on the inside of such a fence with fear-crazed wingnuts in power. Be careful what you wall in.

    On the other side of the issue, millions of people peacefully marched in numerous cities around the country, particularly here. They do all the grunt work in this state. They’re hardworking and very family oriented. Far from causing the state economy to collapse, California is one of the most prosperous regions in the world, in no small part due to immigrants who are willing to work cheap.

    The big problem with California is over-population, which is in part due to immigration. Our infrastructure is stretched to the max and beyond. Our schools are in sad shape. Real estate is sky high, in part due to increasing demand. Our state government – oh you don’t want to even go there… Just be thankful your state doesn’t have initiative and referendum (if in fact it doesn’t).

    There is also a racist element to this: A few years ago, the percentage of whites statewide dropped below 50 %, a fact which fuels organizations like the Minutemen. This trend (whites comprising less of the population) is happening all across America.

    What’s interesting is that there is also a large Asian population here, who are widely regarded as hard-working, success driven, and prosperous – the reputation Asians often enjoy everywhere. Their children are very well represented at the top public universities here, the UC system. Where darker skinned people are looked down upon by white racists, they view Asians with envy and suspicion.

    It’s become so difficult to have a rational political disccusion about anything in this country any more, all the more so about something as emotionally charged as immigration.

14. Swami  •  Aug 30, 2006 @12:38 am
    

    I am ashamed to tell you all this but our state is poor..everytime a death occurs our state foots the bill and it causes a crisis about where we will come up with the money to fund it.Some bodies we have even paid to send back to mexico …I don’t mean to sound mean about the death of my fellow man but in our state the cost is adding up

    justme, Do you really believe that?….It sounds more like a modified knockoff of the proverbial welfare queen tale. Whoever is creating the financial crisis senario isn’t motivated by fiscal responsiblity..they’re playing on people’s prejudices and fears against Mexicans for their own advantage. Acid rain, snail darters, crack babies, welfare queens..and dead Chicanos?

15. lafrance  •  Aug 30, 2006 @1:04 am
    

    I have torn feelings on this subject. My mother is from France so I have some feelings for the immigrants. I also feel bad when I see these people being exploited or dying in the desert. the stories and the hopes and dreams.
    On the other hand I hate that the middle class is getting dogged all over by this administration with trying to make this a surf society. I don’t like this superhighway thing, I want our borders secure and I want us to have a soveirgn nation. I also hate the fact that our county is being allowed to be run by coorporations and that everything is a scheme for the rich and powerful.
    I know how bad the economy is in Mexico and that the politicians are starving the people but, then, that is what ours is trying to do to us.
    So back and forth it goes. I just feel sides are so hard.

16. justme  •  Aug 30, 2006 @2:10 am
    

    Perhaps, Swami, that was the motive of the news coverage locally on the subject…but I do see that adding more people of any race or color will require more resources.People are people no matter what their color they cost the same.I certainly do not fault the poor people who died for dying without the funds to bury themselves but I don’t hold the bush”put it on our tab” view either…someone has to pay the bills…it aint free to bury them because they happened to be illegal immigrants- it has to come out of a budget somewhere….why should states be burdened with figuring out how to pay for the federal governments failure to uphold it’s own laws?

    Yes , the funds were found to do the proper thing for those folks who died so sadly and if the state didn’t have it the people would have pulled together to raise it and no one complained but it did raise the larger questions of just how much money must states now set aside to deal with such issues in the future and where is it coming from?.Iowa is a small modest state and money does matter because we don’t have a lot…but lets not stop with my state, how much burden can the government pile on any state by not enforcing their own federal immigration laws?

    I hope this isn’t a “for us or against us” issue just because I bring up the topic of funding when we talk about adding millions of people to our country…taking in 11 million people is going to cost money..things like the deaths I brought up are just one small example…life is life and the saying “shit happens” knows no race or color …we HAVE to have the ability or at least a plan to deal with the needs of extra people and we don’t even seem to be able to do that for our own given what we saw in NO

    I think, in general, that Iowa is a pro immigration state so if the media intended to paint the “welfare queen” picture they had a hard sell because immigrants are very hard working respected members of our communities but that doesn’t mean we don’t need a plan to deal with the needs adding more people to our state will create.

    I would like to adopt all the people in Darfur..and I am sure they would all work very hard if we brought them all here to live. I would even dare to say they need to come here more then Mexican immigrants.. there is no genocide that I am aware of in Mexico. Could we afford to do that?Or should we just bring 11 million of them home before we consider it?