Comments on: Let Them Eat Gold-Plated Cake http://www.mahablog.com/2007/01/22/let-them-eat-gold-plated-cake/ Exposing the ugly truths about the Bush Administration. Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:44:18 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1.3 by: The Mahablog » The Road to Serfdom http://www.mahablog.com/2007/01/22/let-them-eat-gold-plated-cake/#comment-276608 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:35:45 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/01/22/let-them-eat-gold-plated-cake/#comment-276608 [...] Even as the health care crisis touches nearly everyone in the middle class, directly or indirectly, government and media continue to treat it as some little inconvenience for “the poor.” Being cut off from all but emergency care is considered a personal problem no doubt resulting from an individual’s bad choices. Just about every voice in Washington and mass media tells citizens that it’s wrong to expect government to make it possible to get decent health care. They should just suck it up and cut out trans fats. (See also “Let Them Eat Gold-Plated Cake.”) [...] […] Even as the health care crisis touches nearly everyone in the middle class, directly or indirectly, government and media continue to treat it as some little inconvenience for “the poor.” Being cut off from all but emergency care is considered a personal problem no doubt resulting from an individual’s bad choices. Just about every voice in Washington and mass media tells citizens that it’s wrong to expect government to make it possible to get decent health care. They should just suck it up and cut out trans fats. (See also “Let Them Eat Gold-Plated Cake.”) […]

]]> by: End of Silence - Freedom hating on the internets since 2002 » links for 2007-01-22 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/01/22/let-them-eat-gold-plated-cake/#comment-75759 Wed, 31 Jan 2007 00:04:45 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/01/22/let-them-eat-gold-plated-cake/#comment-75759 [...] You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site. Leave aReply [...] […] You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site. Leave aReply […]

]]> by: John Palmer/LongHairedWeirdo http://www.mahablog.com/2007/01/22/let-them-eat-gold-plated-cake/#comment-74189 Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:44:05 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/01/22/let-them-eat-gold-plated-cake/#comment-74189 <blockquote>I believe most health care plans stipulate that prescriptions have to be filled with the generic drug if there is one. If costs like this really are having an impact on health care costs, then you’d think the “market forces” that affect health insurance companies would take care of it.</blockquote> Oh, I don't think it's having much of an effect. Herm. Bush was talking about India. He was saying "they're making lots of money, and they want to spend that money on Domino's Pizza and Maytag washers". That means money for America, right? Uh... who's making those pizzas? Not Americans. And the washers? I assume it's not Americans there, as well. In short, corporations are making more money, but American workers aren't. But it's okay, because, hey, if you lose your job to outsourcing, it's still making money for America! Well, I was making a similar commentary re: the health care plans. Some really nice plans do distort the ability of the market to regulate health care costs. Yes, the amount of distortion is *tiny*... it's probably meaningless. But, "it helps the free market regulate health care costs", just like "outsourcing means more money for America". I commented on that because, boy, I couldn't even imagine how *anyone* could think that was a good idea... oh, wait, I *could* imagine how someone could be that stupid." Bush is living proof that "A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring"

I believe most health care plans stipulate that prescriptions have to be filled with the generic drug if there is one. If costs like this really are having an impact on health care costs, then you’d think the “market forces” that affect health insurance companies would take care of it.

Oh, I don’t think it’s having much of an effect. Herm.

Bush was talking about India. He was saying “they’re making lots of money, and they want to spend that money on Domino’s Pizza and Maytag washers”.

That means money for America, right?

Uh… who’s making those pizzas? Not Americans. And the washers? I assume it’s not Americans there, as well.

In short, corporations are making more money, but American workers aren’t.

But it’s okay, because, hey, if you lose your job to outsourcing, it’s still making money for America!

Well, I was making a similar commentary re: the health care plans. Some really nice plans do distort the ability of the market to regulate health care costs. Yes, the amount of distortion is *tiny*… it’s probably meaningless.

But, “it helps the free market regulate health care costs”, just like “outsourcing means more money for America”.

I commented on that because, boy, I couldn’t even imagine how *anyone* could think that was a good idea… oh, wait, I *could* imagine how someone could be that stupid.”

Bush is living proof that “A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring”

]]> by: The Mahablog » Tonight’s the Night! http://www.mahablog.com/2007/01/22/let-them-eat-gold-plated-cake/#comment-74182 Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:32:35 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/01/22/let-them-eat-gold-plated-cake/#comment-74182 [...] The President is expected to announce a major health care initiative, which I discussed earlier this week, here and here. Today we have the exciting news that The Dumbest Health Care Plan Ever!™ has gotten even dumber. Christopher Lee and Lori Montgomery write for the Washington Post, The best solutions to the problem of nearly 47 million Americans lacking health insurance are to be found in states across the country, Health and Human Services Secretary Mike Leavitt said Monday. [...] […] The President is expected to announce a major health care initiative, which I discussed earlier this week, here and here. Today we have the exciting news that The Dumbest Health Care Plan Ever!™ has gotten even dumber. Christopher Lee and Lori Montgomery write for the Washington Post, The best solutions to the problem of nearly 47 million Americans lacking health insurance are to be found in states across the country, Health and Human Services Secretary Mike Leavitt said Monday. […]

]]> by: grannyeagle http://www.mahablog.com/2007/01/22/let-them-eat-gold-plated-cake/#comment-74177 Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:26:18 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/01/22/let-them-eat-gold-plated-cake/#comment-74177 Maha and Ian --- I was speaking from my experience. I know doctors are not supposed to order antibiotics for viral infections anymore. What I am saying is that "some" still do it. I have had doctors say to my face that they have to give the patient what they want or they will lose them. This is irresponsible but it happens. As far as people not getting needed tests because the insurance company won't authorize them, this may be true but that is scary. I have had health coverage through my work and yes it is expensive because an employee could get paid more if it was not added in as a benefit. However, most people don't realize this. Perhaps I was being unfair in saying they wanted the money for luxuries but it is not uncommon for everyone to have a TV, computer, DVD, etc. They may be paying $300-$400/mo. for a car and $60/mo or more for a cell phone. I come from a simpler time and I consider these luxuries. To me, food, clothing, shelter are priorities. As I said, I am speaking from my experience and I saw these people come in to the hospital for treatment over and over again. Maha and Ian — I was speaking from my experience. I know doctors are not supposed to order antibiotics for viral infections anymore. What I am saying is that “some” still do it. I have had doctors say to my face that they have to give the patient what they want or they will lose them. This is irresponsible but it happens.
As far as people not getting needed tests because the insurance company won’t authorize them, this may be true but that is scary.
I have had health coverage through my work and yes it is expensive because an employee could get paid more if it was not added in as a benefit. However, most people don’t realize this. Perhaps I was being unfair in saying they wanted the money for luxuries but it is not uncommon for everyone to have a TV, computer, DVD, etc. They may be paying $300-$400/mo. for a car and $60/mo or more for a cell phone. I come from a simpler time and I consider these luxuries. To me, food, clothing, shelter are priorities. As I said, I am speaking from my experience and I saw these people come in to the hospital for treatment over and over again.

]]> by: Steve from Canuckistan http://www.mahablog.com/2007/01/22/let-them-eat-gold-plated-cake/#comment-74077 Tue, 23 Jan 2007 02:35:46 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/01/22/let-them-eat-gold-plated-cake/#comment-74077 It’s pretty obvious that Bush and his puppeteers are frantically trying to change the subject away from the continuing fiasco and tragedy in the Middle East. Pay no attention to the man behind that curtain. He had such great success with his social security reform that perhaps we’ll soon see a bamboozlepalooza tour 2… for health care reform. LOL. Nothing will change until all of these uninsured Americans stand up along with progressives from coast to coast and demand a national health care plan. The USA is (still) the richest country in the world. The USA can afford national health care. Bush and his enablers are lower than a snake’s belly. They have lost the trust of a majority of the electorate. They are vulnerable. If the Democrats won’t impeach then they must force accountability for the mess created or made worse through willful inaction and incompetence. This shouldn’t be rocket science. (Almost) everything that Bush has touched in the past 6 years has turned to lead unless you count your self in the top 1% of earners who benefited from his tax cuts. It’s pretty obvious that Bush and his puppeteers are frantically trying to change the subject away from the continuing fiasco and tragedy in the Middle East. Pay no attention to the man behind that curtain. He had such great success with his social security reform that perhaps we’ll soon see a bamboozlepalooza tour 2… for health care reform. LOL. Nothing will change until all of these uninsured Americans stand up along with progressives from coast to coast and demand a national health care plan. The USA is (still) the richest country in the world. The USA can afford national health care. Bush and his enablers are lower than a snake’s belly. They have lost the trust of a majority of the electorate. They are vulnerable. If the Democrats won’t impeach then they must force accountability for the mess created or made worse through willful inaction and incompetence. This shouldn’t be rocket science. (Almost) everything that Bush has touched in the past 6 years has turned to lead unless you count your self in the top 1% of earners who benefited from his tax cuts.

]]> by: maha http://www.mahablog.com/2007/01/22/let-them-eat-gold-plated-cake/#comment-74075 Tue, 23 Jan 2007 02:10:38 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/01/22/let-them-eat-gold-plated-cake/#comment-74075 <i>If you buy a plan that covers, say, new drugs for a $5 copay, then you have no incentive to buy cheaper drugs and cut down “health care costs”.</i> I believe most health care plans stipulate that prescriptions have to be filled with the generic drug if there is one. If costs like this really are having an impact on health care costs, then you'd think the "market forces" that affect health insurance companies would take care of it. Truly, the more you learn about our bleeped up health care system, the more weary you become of these gimmicks and band aids. Regarding the Irish famine -- Sinead O'Connor is right. The Irish were growing plenty of food, and it was being exported while the Irish starved. Most Irish were either subsistence farmers or were farm workers for wealthy landowners. The workers lived in little huts on the landowner's property and grew their own food on little plots. And mostly what they grew was potatoes, because in good years potatoes grew abundantly on a little bit of land, and potatoes keep in a root cellar through the winter. So when potato crops failed, the workers starved. If you buy a plan that covers, say, new drugs for a $5 copay, then you have no incentive to buy cheaper drugs and cut down “health care costs”.

I believe most health care plans stipulate that prescriptions have to be filled with the generic drug if there is one. If costs like this really are having an impact on health care costs, then you’d think the “market forces” that affect health insurance companies would take care of it.

Truly, the more you learn about our bleeped up health care system, the more weary you become of these gimmicks and band aids.

Regarding the Irish famine — Sinead O’Connor is right. The Irish were growing plenty of food, and it was being exported while the Irish starved. Most Irish were either subsistence farmers or were farm workers for wealthy landowners. The workers lived in little huts on the landowner’s property and grew their own food on little plots. And mostly what they grew was potatoes, because in good years potatoes grew abundantly on a little bit of land, and potatoes keep in a root cellar through the winter. So when potato crops failed, the workers starved.

]]> by: John Palmer/LongHairedWeirdo http://www.mahablog.com/2007/01/22/let-them-eat-gold-plated-cake/#comment-74071 Tue, 23 Jan 2007 01:04:44 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/01/22/let-them-eat-gold-plated-cake/#comment-74071 Sinead O'Connor - who I don't trust as a primary source - claims that the Irish were growing plenty of food during the potato famine. It's just, that food was for export. They took the food away from the starving, she says. If so... well, there just aren't any words angry enough for that. Sinead O’Connor - who I don’t trust as a primary source - claims that the Irish were growing plenty of food during the potato famine. It’s just, that food was for export.

They took the food away from the starving, she says.

If so… well, there just aren’t any words angry enough for that.

]]> by: John Palmer/LongHairedWeirdo http://www.mahablog.com/2007/01/22/let-them-eat-gold-plated-cake/#comment-74070 Tue, 23 Jan 2007 00:59:12 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/01/22/let-them-eat-gold-plated-cake/#comment-74070 I think I might understand the "reasoning" - I'm sorry, I can't think of a weaker word for it - behind the "gold-plated plans" bit. If you buy a plan that covers, say, new drugs for a $5 copay, then you have no incentive to buy cheaper drugs and cut down "health care costs". These really good plans *do* distort market forces, so market forces can't regulate health care. The trouble is, the average consumer *can't* use market forces to regulate health care in any large sense. I mean, I know "high LDL cholesterol is bad"; I can't say whether that means I'm okay taking X cholesterol drug, or if I really need Y. If Y costs me $100 a month, that's huge... unless it cuts my risk of heart attack or heart disease by such a huge amount that it's worth my life. Multiply this out a hundred different times in a hundred different ways, and you see the problem. We need universal health care, somehow. And we need to make sure it's affordable for everyone. I think I might understand the “reasoning” - I’m sorry, I can’t think of a weaker word for it - behind the “gold-plated plans” bit.

If you buy a plan that covers, say, new drugs for a $5 copay, then you have no incentive to buy cheaper drugs and cut down “health care costs”.

These really good plans *do* distort market forces, so market forces can’t regulate health care.

The trouble is, the average consumer *can’t* use market forces to regulate health care in any large sense. I mean, I know “high LDL cholesterol is bad”; I can’t say whether that means I’m okay taking X cholesterol drug, or if I really need Y. If Y costs me $100 a month, that’s huge… unless it cuts my risk of heart attack or heart disease by such a huge amount that it’s worth my life. Multiply this out a hundred different times in a hundred different ways, and you see the problem.

We need universal health care, somehow. And we need to make sure it’s affordable for everyone.

]]> by: Doug Hughes http://www.mahablog.com/2007/01/22/let-them-eat-gold-plated-cake/#comment-74054 Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:30:45 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/01/22/let-them-eat-gold-plated-cake/#comment-74054 IMHO we need to recognize the Buah Health Care Proposal for what it is - an attempt to change the subject. I can't believe that the Dems will sign on to a deal that taxes the middle class to supply Health Care for the uninsured. The number of uninsured is too great; the tax would be so high, the Dems would get lynched. A practical proposal is to provide disincentives for employers who do not offer and pay a significant portion of health insurance - use THAT money to pay for coverage of the uninsured. But I have gotten distracted from my theme, which is SO EASY to do when the topic is so critical as Health Insurance. To return to my theme - the Bush Proposal is NOT serious, and the chaotic debate he hopes to stir up wil take our attention off the escalation. Dems need to reject the plan as unworkable and promise they will develop a SERIOUS plan in 1 year (more or less). And go back to the issues Bush does not want to talk about. Like 20 dead GIs over the weekend and an average 100 civilians per day, per the UN estimate. IMHO we need to recognize the Buah Health Care Proposal for what it is - an attempt to change the subject. I can’t believe that the Dems will sign on to a deal that taxes the middle class to supply Health Care for the uninsured. The number of uninsured is too great; the tax would be so high, the Dems would get lynched.

A practical proposal is to provide disincentives for employers who do not offer and pay a significant portion of health insurance - use THAT money to pay for coverage of the uninsured. But I have gotten distracted from my theme, which is SO EASY to do when the topic is so critical as Health Insurance.

To return to my theme - the Bush Proposal is NOT serious, and the chaotic debate he hopes to stir up wil take our attention off the escalation. Dems need to reject the plan as unworkable and promise they will develop a SERIOUS plan in 1 year (more or less). And go back to the issues Bush does not want to talk about. Like 20 dead GIs over the weekend and an average 100 civilians per day, per the UN estimate.

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