Comments on: That Dog Won’t Hunt http://www.mahablog.com/2007/04/23/that-dog-wont-hunt/ Exposing the ugly truths about the Bush Administration. Mon, 01 Dec 2008 19:23:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1.3 by: Doug Hughes http://www.mahablog.com/2007/04/23/that-dog-wont-hunt/#comment-209873 Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:41:21 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/04/23/that-dog-wont-hunt/#comment-209873 The suggestion that medication sparks violence reminds me of the conclusion that laboratories cause cancer in mice. There is a direct correlation but..... That's not to say that drug manufacturers will always tell us or even tell doctors about side effects, etc. But to pull a medication that has huge benefits for 99% because of side effects for 1% - is idiotic to say the least. You manage possible side effects by supervision and follow-up. What I wold like to see is a blue-ribbon panel of experts from a variety of disciplines, medical & legal, convened to study the problem and make recommendations.Thare's a lot of aspects to the subject, patients rights, rights of the public, personal freedom vs incarceration for treatment, what facilities we need, and where, and who pays. I think there are a lot of professionals who would like to be part of shaping a solution. The goal would be to provide lawmakers with a framework of recommendations to implement at federal, state & local levels. Who can argue that it's not needed? There is an opportunity for Democrats to show they can come up with answers. Let Bush veto a comprehensive bill for psychiatric care for seriously ill & potentially violent residents of this country. The suggestion that medication sparks violence reminds me of the conclusion that laboratories cause cancer in mice. There is a direct correlation but…..

That’s not to say that drug manufacturers will always tell us or even tell doctors about side effects, etc. But to pull a medication that has huge benefits for 99% because of side effects for 1% - is idiotic to say the least. You manage possible side effects by supervision and follow-up.

What I wold like to see is a blue-ribbon panel of experts from a variety of disciplines, medical & legal, convened to study the problem and make recommendations.Thare’s a lot of aspects to the subject, patients rights, rights of the public, personal freedom vs incarceration for treatment, what facilities we need, and where, and who pays. I think there are a lot of professionals who would like to be part of shaping a solution. The goal would be to provide lawmakers with a framework of recommendations to implement at federal, state & local levels. Who can argue that it’s not needed?

There is an opportunity for Democrats to show they can come up with answers. Let Bush veto a comprehensive bill for psychiatric care for seriously ill & potentially violent residents of this country.

]]> by: anon http://www.mahablog.com/2007/04/23/that-dog-wont-hunt/#comment-209650 Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:47:35 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/04/23/that-dog-wont-hunt/#comment-209650 Oh, I wasn't clear. Obviously he had some type of psychosis. I'm talking about the manifestation of this psychosis, though. Like so many other men who have gone on these kind of rampages, there's a clear pattern of misogyny, homophobia, insecurity about their own masculinity that seems to feed into the psychosis to erupt in this particular way. Why is that? Gun control, involuntary psychiatric commitment, etc, are not addressing THAT problem. We, as a society, are not even recognizing or talking about that aspect of it, all that much (there's some exceptions out there). That's what I was getting at. Why does the eruption take that form? Oh, I wasn’t clear. Obviously he had some type of psychosis. I’m talking about the manifestation of this psychosis, though. Like so many other men who have gone on these kind of rampages, there’s a clear pattern of misogyny, homophobia, insecurity about their own masculinity that seems to feed into the psychosis to erupt in this particular way. Why is that?

Gun control, involuntary psychiatric commitment, etc, are not addressing THAT problem. We, as a society, are not even recognizing or talking about that aspect of it, all that much (there’s some exceptions out there). That’s what I was getting at. Why does the eruption take that form?

]]> by: The Mahablog » Assigning Blame http://www.mahablog.com/2007/04/23/that-dog-wont-hunt/#comment-209436 Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:41:35 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/04/23/that-dog-wont-hunt/#comment-209436 [...] Following up yesterday’s post on the “causes” of the Virginia Tech massacre — I was disappointed to see that Arianna Huffington wrote this: Reports that Cho had been taking antidepressants once again turn the spotlight on the uneasy question of what role these powerful medications might have played in yet another campus massacre. [...] […] Following up yesterday’s post on the “causes” of the Virginia Tech massacre — I was disappointed to see that Arianna Huffington wrote this: Reports that Cho had been taking antidepressants once again turn the spotlight on the uneasy question of what role these powerful medications might have played in yet another campus massacre. […]

]]> by: Ian http://www.mahablog.com/2007/04/23/that-dog-wont-hunt/#comment-209421 Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:21:58 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/04/23/that-dog-wont-hunt/#comment-209421 #7 ... Cho was one sick puppy. Totally bonkers. My dad's a shrink, and he assures me those are technical terms, "terms of art" as they say. The form of our society MAY have had a hand in shaping exactly what form his bonkerness would take (that's debatable, it depends on a lot of things that aren't yet known), he was always going to be a danger to himself and others in one way or another. The difference between our current society and the ideal society is that in the ideal society, there would have been PLENTY of help and care available for him for free, there would be little to no stigma attached, and, on the off chance that he refused to avail himself of the help, there would be a mechanism in place to FORCE the help on him. In the ideal society he'd still be bonkers, but he wouldn't hav been a danger to himself and others, because he'd have been helped by now. The difference between our current society and the ideal society is the ONLY sense in which it is accurate to say our society "creates people like Cho". And the way to address that issue is by [i]treating[/i] people like Cho, and by putting in enough gun control that people like Cho would not be able to get a gun. That is in no sense a "favorite political football", it is the [i]remedy to the problem[/i]. -me #7 … Cho was one sick puppy. Totally bonkers. My dad’s a shrink, and he assures me those are technical terms, “terms of art” as they say. The form of our society MAY have had a hand in shaping exactly what form his bonkerness would take (that’s debatable, it depends on a lot of things that aren’t yet known), he was always going to be a danger to himself and others in one way or another.

The difference between our current society and the ideal society is that in the ideal society, there would have been PLENTY of help and care available for him for free, there would be little to no stigma attached, and, on the off chance that he refused to avail himself of the help, there would be a mechanism in place to FORCE the help on him. In the ideal society he’d still be bonkers, but he wouldn’t hav been a danger to himself and others, because he’d have been helped by now.

The difference between our current society and the ideal society is the ONLY sense in which it is accurate to say our society “creates people like Cho”.

And the way to address that issue is by [i]treating[/i] people like Cho, and by putting in enough gun control that people like Cho would not be able to get a gun.

That is in no sense a “favorite political football”, it is the [i]remedy to the problem[/i].

-me

]]> by: maha http://www.mahablog.com/2007/04/23/that-dog-wont-hunt/#comment-209230 Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:30:44 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/04/23/that-dog-wont-hunt/#comment-209230 anon -- it's fairly obvious that Cho was deeply disturbed, although I suppose a precise diagnosis is impossible now. But my understanding is that most psychosis, like schizophrenia, comes from a physical disease of the brain. They can run psychotics through a CAT scan and see that their brains aren't working properly. It's not something "we" do, and it's unrelated to character/social maladjustments like homophobia and misogyny. anon — it’s fairly obvious that Cho was deeply disturbed, although I suppose a precise diagnosis is impossible now. But my understanding is that most psychosis, like schizophrenia, comes from a physical disease of the brain. They can run psychotics through a CAT scan and see that their brains aren’t working properly. It’s not something “we” do, and it’s unrelated to character/social maladjustments like homophobia and misogyny.

]]> by: Ed http://www.mahablog.com/2007/04/23/that-dog-wont-hunt/#comment-209229 Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:21:51 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/04/23/that-dog-wont-hunt/#comment-209229 From what I understand, mental illness incurs a great deal of stigma in the Korean as well as many other immigrant and working class communities. When you compound this disinclination to seek help with the high financial and red tape thresh hold it is a wonder we do not see more masacres. I am a staunch supporter of gun control. Registration, training and licensing should be a part of the process of gun ownership as it is with owning and driving a car. That said, I doubt these provisions would have made a difference in this case. Even if guns were abolished who would prevent a determined individual from becoming a bomber or suicide bomber. Serious consideration has to be put towards creating a sane mental health policy and by that one could be saying a sane health policy since they are truly the same thing. From what I understand, mental illness incurs a great deal of stigma in the Korean as well as many other immigrant and working class communities. When you compound this disinclination to seek help with the high financial and red tape thresh hold it is a wonder we do not see more masacres.

I am a staunch supporter of gun control. Registration, training and licensing should be a part of the process of gun ownership as it is with owning and driving a car. That said, I doubt these provisions would have made a difference in this case. Even if guns were abolished who would prevent a determined individual from becoming a bomber or suicide bomber.

Serious consideration has to be put towards creating a sane mental health policy and by that one could be saying a sane health policy since they are truly the same thing.

]]> by: Elliott Lake http://www.mahablog.com/2007/04/23/that-dog-wont-hunt/#comment-208895 Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:09:56 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/04/23/that-dog-wont-hunt/#comment-208895 I'm from a medical family and that idea had approximately ZERO TRACTION with the medical and psychiatric communities. Reagan era policies turned mentally ill people out into the streets, continuing conservative policies have kept this going. Compared to the access to mental health care in Mexico, we have much less available in this country for low-income people. Of course, the mentally ill do not vote much so their needs get short shrift governmentally. I’m from a medical family and that idea had approximately ZERO TRACTION with the medical and psychiatric communities.

Reagan era policies turned mentally ill people out into the streets, continuing conservative policies have kept this going.

Compared to the access to mental health care in Mexico, we have much less available in this country for low-income people. Of course, the mentally ill do not vote much so their needs get short shrift governmentally.

]]> by: anon http://www.mahablog.com/2007/04/23/that-dog-wont-hunt/#comment-208858 Tue, 24 Apr 2007 04:45:48 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/04/23/that-dog-wont-hunt/#comment-208858 I still think everyone's missing the larger point. Conservatives want to lock 'em up. Liberals want to put in gun control laws &#38; treat them. The problem is, either way, Cho would still have existed. The <i>problem</i> is that our society creates people like Cho. But no one wants to address <i>that</i>. People just want to throw their favorite political footballs at it instead. See, here's what I get out of this, after reading up about this. If I meet an individual, specifically male, who evinces any form of homophobia especially coupled with misogyny, then I need to stay the hell away from this person for my own personal safety. Problem: I can't figure them all out. There are thousands of Cho's passing me by on the street, at the campus, in the store. When are we going to start looking at how and why we create monsters like Cho? I still think everyone’s missing the larger point. Conservatives want to lock ‘em up. Liberals want to put in gun control laws & treat them.

The problem is, either way, Cho would still have existed. The problem is that our society creates people like Cho. But no one wants to address that. People just want to throw their favorite political footballs at it instead.

See, here’s what I get out of this, after reading up about this. If I meet an individual, specifically male, who evinces any form of homophobia especially coupled with misogyny, then I need to stay the hell away from this person for my own personal safety.

Problem: I can’t figure them all out. There are thousands of Cho’s passing me by on the street, at the campus, in the store.

When are we going to start looking at how and why we create monsters like Cho?

]]> by: QrazyQat http://www.mahablog.com/2007/04/23/that-dog-wont-hunt/#comment-208445 Tue, 24 Apr 2007 00:31:06 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/04/23/that-dog-wont-hunt/#comment-208445 Perhaps my memory is faulty, but wasn't the turning out of mental patients unto the streets one of President Ronald Reagan's initiatives? Just as he did in California as governor. Perhaps my memory is faulty, but wasn’t the turning out of mental patients unto the streets one of President Ronald Reagan’s initiatives? Just as he did in California as governor.

]]> by: beckya57 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/04/23/that-dog-wont-hunt/#comment-208226 Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:26:10 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/04/23/that-dog-wont-hunt/#comment-208226 I AM in the psychiatric community, and I can tell you, we take mental illness seriously. The biggest problem is a simple lack of resources, and right-wing thinking is largely to blame for that. The mentally ill do not have a strong lobby, and so very little money is apportioned for their care, plus the endless drive to cut taxes hurts all social services. See, eg, the NYT article about how Medicaid cuts in Mississippi have led to an increase in infant mortality. Many mentally ill people also depend on Medicaid for their medications. Don't even talk about psychotherapy; that's hard for even middle-class people to get these days, thanks to managed care. It's idiotic to talk about changing the commitment laws when we don't have any place to put these people. A huge percentage of them end up in the justice system these days, where they get very little care and are often victimized by other inmates. I AM in the psychiatric community, and I can tell you, we take mental illness seriously. The biggest problem is a simple lack of resources, and right-wing thinking is largely to blame for that. The mentally ill do not have a strong lobby, and so very little money is apportioned for their care, plus the endless drive to cut taxes hurts all social services. See, eg, the NYT article about how Medicaid cuts in Mississippi have led to an increase in infant mortality. Many mentally ill people also depend on Medicaid for their medications. Don’t even talk about psychotherapy; that’s hard for even middle-class people to get these days, thanks to managed care. It’s idiotic to talk about changing the commitment laws when we don’t have any place to put these people. A huge percentage of them end up in the justice system these days, where they get very little care and are often victimized by other inmates.

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