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	<title>Comments on: Demand Supply</title>
	<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/11/demand-supply/</link>
	<description>Exposing the ugly truths about the Bush Administration.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 17:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: The Mahablog &#187; So I&#8217;m Blue in the Face</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/11/demand-supply/#comment-252898</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/11/demand-supply/#comment-252898</guid>
					<description>[...] As far as the &amp;#8220;fewer drugs for fewer illnesses&amp;#8221; line &amp;#8212; what&amp;#8217;s actually happening is that highly subsidized American Big Pharma cranks out tons of boutique drugs for boutique illness (toe rot; restless leg syndrome) or &amp;#8220;new&amp;#8221; drugs advertised as breakthrough but which usually are just minor tweaks to the old drugs, or perhaps not as good as the old drugs. &amp;#8220;Life-saving&amp;#8221; often means &amp;#8220;terminal patients get one more month.&amp;#8221; That sort of thing. I&amp;#8217;ve written about his before; see &amp;#8220;Demand Supply&amp;#8221; and &amp;#8220;Unhealthy Care.&amp;#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[&#8230;] As far as the &#8220;fewer drugs for fewer illnesses&#8221; line &#8212; what&#8217;s actually happening is that highly subsidized American Big Pharma cranks out tons of boutique drugs for boutique illness (toe rot; restless leg syndrome) or &#8220;new&#8221; drugs advertised as breakthrough but which usually are just minor tweaks to the old drugs, or perhaps not as good as the old drugs. &#8220;Life-saving&#8221; often means &#8220;terminal patients get one more month.&#8221; That sort of thing. I&#8217;ve written about his before; see &#8220;Demand Supply&#8221; and &#8220;Unhealthy Care.&#8221; [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: The Mahablog &#187; Unhealthy Care</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/11/demand-supply/#comment-216311</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 12:57:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/11/demand-supply/#comment-216311</guid>
					<description>[...] I found some newspaper items this morning that provide a good follow up to the &amp;#8220;Demand Supply&amp;#8221; post from last week. The first is from an editorial in today&amp;#8217;s Atlanta Constitution: After two decades of steady improvement, the death rate for Georgia babies could soon be on its way up again. While neonatologists in specialized nurseries have achieved remarkable success at saving the lives of medically fragile infants, the rate of babies born too soon to Georgia mothers has been slowly rising since 1994. These babies are at a much higher risk of death in their first 12 months of life. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[&#8230;] I found some newspaper items this morning that provide a good follow up to the &#8220;Demand Supply&#8221; post from last week. The first is from an editorial in today&#8217;s Atlanta Constitution: After two decades of steady improvement, the death rate for Georgia babies could soon be on its way up again. While neonatologists in specialized nurseries have achieved remarkable success at saving the lives of medically fragile infants, the rate of babies born too soon to Georgia mothers has been slowly rising since 1994. These babies are at a much higher risk of death in their first 12 months of life. [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: goatherd</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/11/demand-supply/#comment-215941</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2007 14:47:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/11/demand-supply/#comment-215941</guid>
					<description>Thanks for posting this topic. 

I think one of the shameful indicators of the failure of our health care system lies in the striking difference in the infant mortality rate among African-Americans and Americans of European origin. Needless to say this difference falls heavily along economic lines as well. The system works for wealthy or well-insured people, pretty abyssmally for working class people.

It is my understanding that in large part our public health system was initiated during and after World War One because public health in general was so poor that it was difficult to find citizens fit enough to serve. Certainly even conservatives could see some advantage there.

The &quot;magic of the free market&quot; reminds me a bit of Rousseau's &quot;State of Nature&quot; being some mythical, natural situation that sets all things right. Nice fantasy, if you can believe it.

.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thanks for posting this topic. </p>
	<p>I think one of the shameful indicators of the failure of our health care system lies in the striking difference in the infant mortality rate among African-Americans and Americans of European origin. Needless to say this difference falls heavily along economic lines as well. The system works for wealthy or well-insured people, pretty abyssmally for working class people.</p>
	<p>It is my understanding that in large part our public health system was initiated during and after World War One because public health in general was so poor that it was difficult to find citizens fit enough to serve. Certainly even conservatives could see some advantage there.</p>
	<p>The &#8220;magic of the free market&#8221; reminds me a bit of Rousseau&#8217;s &#8220;State of Nature&#8221; being some mythical, natural situation that sets all things right. Nice fantasy, if you can believe it.</p>
	<p>.
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		<title>by: Donna</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/11/demand-supply/#comment-215918</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2007 11:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/11/demand-supply/#comment-215918</guid>
					<description>That our allies, the UK and Australia pay for all contraception, must offer a spike of dissonance within our religious rightie prez and the Dobson/Falwell bunch.  Do the religious righties grab for blinders and ear muffs seeing/hearing this fact?

The profit squeeze affecting medicine does take place in hospitals which claim non-profit status [ property tax exclusion benefits, et al], and the 'medical' profit squeezers include collection agencies who are now partnering with the medical profiteers to herd bunches of folks into small claims courts to get those last drops of blood out of the unfortunate. 

Yes, Bonnie.....our system is offering extended shelf life, especially inasmuch as Medicare pays, rather than offering a quality of life which would include a natural dignified death.  Do note that  this extended shelf life program now includes legal mechanisms which force estate transfers, not to heirs, but to non-heirs ready to scoop up all remaining assets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>That our allies, the UK and Australia pay for all contraception, must offer a spike of dissonance within our religious rightie prez and the Dobson/Falwell bunch.  Do the religious righties grab for blinders and ear muffs seeing/hearing this fact?</p>
	<p>The profit squeeze affecting medicine does take place in hospitals which claim non-profit status [ property tax exclusion benefits, et al], and the &#8216;medical&#8217; profit squeezers include collection agencies who are now partnering with the medical profiteers to herd bunches of folks into small claims courts to get those last drops of blood out of the unfortunate. </p>
	<p>Yes, Bonnie&#8230;..our system is offering extended shelf life, especially inasmuch as Medicare pays, rather than offering a quality of life which would include a natural dignified death.  Do note that  this extended shelf life program now includes legal mechanisms which force estate transfers, not to heirs, but to non-heirs ready to scoop up all remaining assets.
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		<title>by: moonbat</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/11/demand-supply/#comment-215865</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2007 03:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/11/demand-supply/#comment-215865</guid>
					<description>All of what you've posted is the obscene truth about our twisted, &quot;sicko&quot; (h/t to MM), for-profit system. I'd gladly fight for, and switch to a single payer system, one well funded and well run, such as France's, in a New York minute. In fact, I think a lot about leaving the USA, and one of the motivations is to reside in a country that is set up for universal health care, whether you're rich or poor, employed or not.

That said, one of the factors stressing the US health system, and I suspect all health systems is the belief in applying all available technology to save the lives of the elderly who are near the end of their lives anyway. All the technical improvements in medicine you cited I suspect are used disproportionately by the elderly.

I presently am caring for an ailing, elderly parent, and have spent a great deal of time in nursing homes and hospitals. I have seen firsthand how so many members of this age cohort live out their lives in suffering every day. Extrapolating from my own family's situation, I can see the age 80+ cohort sucking down the lion's share of health care, and I suspect (I could be wrong) driving up the cost of it for everyone.

Were our beliefs about life and death, and assisted suicide different, I don't think you'd see the age 80+ cohort hanging on for every last second of dear life. I believe that painless, assisted suicide, a la Dr Kervorkian should be available, instead of being stigmatized and illegal. It says much about our culture that we have all these exotic, expensive technologies to prolong life, and yet we are terrified of death, which is as natural as birth.

Given these facts:

-Our health care system is very broken
-Exotic technologies have arrived which extend life, esp for the elderly
-Our country is deeply in debt and will likely be cutting back on things like social security and medicare; if some sort of socialized health care system is created (I'd give it a 50:50 chance) it's likely to be quite lame

I think you're going to see legalized, assisted suicide revisited, simply as a cost saving measure, although it will take a weakening of the religious right for this to happen. In the meantime, I'm shopping around for another country...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>All of what you&#8217;ve posted is the obscene truth about our twisted, &#8220;sicko&#8221; (h/t to MM), for-profit system. I&#8217;d gladly fight for, and switch to a single payer system, one well funded and well run, such as France&#8217;s, in a New York minute. In fact, I think a lot about leaving the USA, and one of the motivations is to reside in a country that is set up for universal health care, whether you&#8217;re rich or poor, employed or not.</p>
	<p>That said, one of the factors stressing the US health system, and I suspect all health systems is the belief in applying all available technology to save the lives of the elderly who are near the end of their lives anyway. All the technical improvements in medicine you cited I suspect are used disproportionately by the elderly.</p>
	<p>I presently am caring for an ailing, elderly parent, and have spent a great deal of time in nursing homes and hospitals. I have seen firsthand how so many members of this age cohort live out their lives in suffering every day. Extrapolating from my own family&#8217;s situation, I can see the age 80+ cohort sucking down the lion&#8217;s share of health care, and I suspect (I could be wrong) driving up the cost of it for everyone.</p>
	<p>Were our beliefs about life and death, and assisted suicide different, I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;d see the age 80+ cohort hanging on for every last second of dear life. I believe that painless, assisted suicide, a la Dr Kervorkian should be available, instead of being stigmatized and illegal. It says much about our culture that we have all these exotic, expensive technologies to prolong life, and yet we are terrified of death, which is as natural as birth.</p>
	<p>Given these facts:</p>
	<p>-Our health care system is very broken<br />
-Exotic technologies have arrived which extend life, esp for the elderly<br />
-Our country is deeply in debt and will likely be cutting back on things like social security and medicare; if some sort of socialized health care system is created (I&#8217;d give it a 50:50 chance) it&#8217;s likely to be quite lame</p>
	<p>I think you&#8217;re going to see legalized, assisted suicide revisited, simply as a cost saving measure, although it will take a weakening of the religious right for this to happen. In the meantime, I&#8217;m shopping around for another country&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: maha</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/11/demand-supply/#comment-215862</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2007 02:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/11/demand-supply/#comment-215862</guid>
					<description>Stephanie -- I'm 55 too. 

Years ago hospitals got along partly with government/charitable subsidy and the rest from getting paid for services by patients or insurance companies. The problem is that years ago medical care wasn't ruinously expensive because there was only so much doctors and hospitals could do. No CAT scans, no heart transplants, etc. Now there is technology available to save people who couldn't have been saved in the past, but it costs zillions of dollars. If we could go back to the level of medical care available in the 1950s we could cut medical costs down to a little fraction of what it is now, but I don't think that would be a popular idea.

The cost of providing medical care has ballooned to the point that only the extremely wealthy or well insured can pay for the medical services that modern technology has brought us. And for a whole lot of reasons we allocate resources in stupid and wasteful ways, so that even though we are spending huge amounts of money on health care more and more people are having to go without basic medical care because they can't pay for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Stephanie &#8212; I&#8217;m 55 too. </p>
	<p>Years ago hospitals got along partly with government/charitable subsidy and the rest from getting paid for services by patients or insurance companies. The problem is that years ago medical care wasn&#8217;t ruinously expensive because there was only so much doctors and hospitals could do. No CAT scans, no heart transplants, etc. Now there is technology available to save people who couldn&#8217;t have been saved in the past, but it costs zillions of dollars. If we could go back to the level of medical care available in the 1950s we could cut medical costs down to a little fraction of what it is now, but I don&#8217;t think that would be a popular idea.</p>
	<p>The cost of providing medical care has ballooned to the point that only the extremely wealthy or well insured can pay for the medical services that modern technology has brought us. And for a whole lot of reasons we allocate resources in stupid and wasteful ways, so that even though we are spending huge amounts of money on health care more and more people are having to go without basic medical care because they can&#8217;t pay for it.
</p>
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		<title>by: Stephanie</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/11/demand-supply/#comment-215855</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2007 01:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/11/demand-supply/#comment-215855</guid>
					<description>Wasn't there a time when hospitals were not &quot;for profit?&quot; I mean aside from the &quot;county&quot; hospital. 

I'm 55, and remember from childhood going to the doctor for 10-20-ish dollars, and if you had insurance, you filed a claim and got re-imbursed. 

I don't know how that would relate to hospitalization. I'm just asking, maybe someone knows. Wasn't there a time when hospitals were not all for profit businesses? Granted, many of them might have been Catholic or private hospitals, with donors, private funding, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Wasn&#8217;t there a time when hospitals were not &#8220;for profit?&#8221; I mean aside from the &#8220;county&#8221; hospital. </p>
	<p>I&#8217;m 55, and remember from childhood going to the doctor for 10-20-ish dollars, and if you had insurance, you filed a claim and got re-imbursed. </p>
	<p>I don&#8217;t know how that would relate to hospitalization. I&#8217;m just asking, maybe someone knows. Wasn&#8217;t there a time when hospitals were not all for profit businesses? Granted, many of them might have been Catholic or private hospitals, with donors, private funding, etc.
</p>
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		<title>by: Doug Hughes</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/11/demand-supply/#comment-215852</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2007 01:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/11/demand-supply/#comment-215852</guid>
					<description>People without insurance are using the ER as their primary care physician. The hospitals are not allowed to turn people away (as it should be) and the ER system chokes. The answer has to be universal health care so the incentive to use the ER for any &amp;#38; all medical needs is ended.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>People without insurance are using the ER as their primary care physician. The hospitals are not allowed to turn people away (as it should be) and the ER system chokes. The answer has to be universal health care so the incentive to use the ER for any &amp; all medical needs is ended.
</p>
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		<title>by: lucidity</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/11/demand-supply/#comment-215841</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2007 00:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/11/demand-supply/#comment-215841</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;The problem is that some parts of the health care process just don’t make any money.&lt;/i&gt;

Great post, and the most succinct explanation I’ve seen of the underlying problem with market-driven healthcare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>The problem is that some parts of the health care process just don’t make any money.</i></p>
	<p>Great post, and the most succinct explanation I’ve seen of the underlying problem with market-driven healthcare.
</p>
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		<title>by: maha</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/11/demand-supply/#comment-215832</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2007 23:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/11/demand-supply/#comment-215832</guid>
					<description>Lynne --- The U.S. is the only industrialized democracy on the planet that does not provide health care for all citizens. The British system is not one of the better ones, because Tony Blair's government has been nickle and diming it to death for years. The Brits pay much less per capita than most nations, and it shows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Lynne &#8212; The U.S. is the only industrialized democracy on the planet that does not provide health care for all citizens. The British system is not one of the better ones, because Tony Blair&#8217;s government has been nickle and diming it to death for years. The Brits pay much less per capita than most nations, and it shows.
</p>
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