Comments on: The Coming Outrage http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/26/the-coming-outrage/ Exposing the ugly truths about the Bush Administration. Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:27:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1.3 by: maha http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/26/the-coming-outrage/#comment-221199 Wed, 30 May 2007 00:14:18 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/26/the-coming-outrage/#comment-221199 T Wolfert -- Pay attention. Democrats won the Senate majority in the November midterm elections. You may have heard about that. The Senate is not part of the Bush Administration, which is the Executive Branch. It is part of Congress, which is the Legislative branch. The Senate Intelligence Committee is chaired by a Democrat and has a Democratic Party majority. That is why it seems odd to me that the Democrats -- Democrats, mind you -- on the committee chose to release this report on the Friday before Memorial Day weekend. T Wolfert — Pay attention. Democrats won the Senate majority in the November midterm elections. You may have heard about that. The Senate is not part of the Bush Administration, which is the Executive Branch. It is part of Congress, which is the Legislative branch. The Senate Intelligence Committee is chaired by a Democrat and has a Democratic Party majority.

That is why it seems odd to me that the Democrats — Democrats, mind you — on the committee chose to release this report on the Friday before Memorial Day weekend.

]]> by: T Wolfert http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/26/the-coming-outrage/#comment-221189 Tue, 29 May 2007 22:42:09 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/26/the-coming-outrage/#comment-221189 Barbara O'Brien wrote "The Senate Intelligence Committee ought to know better than to dump something like this on the Friday before Memorial Day Weekend. I suspect there’s a story behind that, and I’d like to know what it is." Are you kidding me?? This has been the modus operandi of the entire Bush Administration and the so-called "liberal" media from the start of Bush the Younger's reign. Does anyone remember reading or hearing about the 9/11 audio tape made by two air traffic controllers in New York? They repeated into an audio recorder everything they could hear from the second plane that hit the Towers, thinking it could perhaps be useful in any investigation that might follow. Instead, a supervisor from either Homeland Security or the TSA (it's been so long since I read the article I can't remember all the details) went to see them and according to the air traffic controllers literally grabbed the cassette from the hand of one of the men, crushed it in his own hand, tore the tape from the cassette and cut it into small pieces, then took those pieces and distributed them among numerous wastecans throughout the building. The article also stated that the 9/11 Commission decided there was nothing suspicious about this. The air traffic controllers were not named nor were they called to testify before the Commission. This was in the Saturday edition of the St. Louis Post Dispatch on the very last page of the news section. I never once heard or read anything about it again. Then there was the article telling of then-attorney general John Ashcroft ordering librarians throughout the country to gather and destroy certain legal publications which contained mostly federal laws regarding the seizing of property of U.S. citizens who are arrested on federal charges. Ashcroft stated that publications containing federal statutes should only be available in law school libraries. This too was published on a Saturday and was buried in an article with a headline about a totally different subject. I could go on and on, but you get the idea. I hope. Barbara O’Brien wrote “The Senate Intelligence Committee ought to know better than to dump something like this on the Friday before Memorial Day Weekend. I suspect there’s a story behind that, and I’d like to know what it is.” Are you kidding me?? This has been the modus operandi of the entire Bush Administration and the so-called “liberal” media from the start of Bush the Younger’s reign. Does anyone remember reading or hearing about the 9/11 audio tape made by two air traffic controllers in New York? They repeated into an audio recorder everything they could hear from the second plane that hit the Towers, thinking it could perhaps be useful in any investigation that might follow. Instead, a supervisor from either Homeland Security or the TSA (it’s been so long since I read the article I can’t remember all the details) went to see them and according to the air traffic controllers literally grabbed the cassette from the hand of one of the men, crushed it in his own hand, tore the tape from the cassette and cut it into small pieces, then took those pieces and distributed them among numerous wastecans throughout the building. The article also stated that the 9/11 Commission decided there was nothing suspicious about this. The air traffic controllers were not named nor were they called to testify before the Commission. This was in the Saturday edition of the St. Louis Post Dispatch on the very last page of the news section. I never once heard or read anything about it again. Then there was the article telling of then-attorney general John Ashcroft ordering librarians throughout the country to gather and destroy certain legal publications which contained mostly federal laws regarding the seizing of property of U.S. citizens who are arrested on federal charges. Ashcroft stated that publications containing federal statutes should only be available in law school libraries. This too was published on a Saturday and was buried in an article with a headline about a totally different subject. I could go on and on, but you get the idea. I hope.

]]> by: maha http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/26/the-coming-outrage/#comment-220785 Mon, 28 May 2007 20:13:10 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/26/the-coming-outrage/#comment-220785 jbiccum -- The article you link doesn't even address "my argument," much less "blow it up." If anything, it REINFORCES my argument. It shows the White House gave lip service to making Iraq "democratic" before Bush ordered the invasion. This is not news to me. In fact, it bolsters the section of my post about Wolfowitz; he genuinely believed that if Saddam Hussein were removed from power democracy would naturally follow, like mud puddles after a rain, and this would help stabilize the rest of the Middle East. But we went into Iraq with only the haziest notion of how this would happen and what the U.S. needed to do to facilitate it. Once there, we made one stupid mistake after another. The article you link also shows us that different parts of the government had entirely different ideas about what would happen in Iraq after the invasion. The State Department generally took a more cautious view than Feith, Rummy, and Wolfowitz, and the Pentagon military guys had a different view from Pentagon civilian guys, and many people were talking to reporters, but they weren't necessarily talking to each other. Many people in Washington did have some idea how complex the problems they would face might be, but somehow all the people who saw the complexities were swept aside by the ideologues who didn't. This is obvious and apparent from the public record of what has happened in Iraq. Facts do matter, son, and one of these days I hope you will own up to them. jbiccum — The article you link doesn’t even address “my argument,” much less “blow it up.” If anything, it REINFORCES my argument. It shows the White House gave lip service to making Iraq “democratic” before Bush ordered the invasion. This is not news to me. In fact, it bolsters the section of my post about Wolfowitz; he genuinely believed that if Saddam Hussein were removed from power democracy would naturally follow, like mud puddles after a rain, and this would help stabilize the rest of the Middle East. But we went into Iraq with only the haziest notion of how this would happen and what the U.S. needed to do to facilitate it. Once there, we made one stupid mistake after another.

The article you link also shows us that different parts of the government had entirely different ideas about what would happen in Iraq after the invasion. The State Department generally took a more cautious view than Feith, Rummy, and Wolfowitz, and the Pentagon military guys had a different view from Pentagon civilian guys, and many people were talking to reporters, but they weren’t necessarily talking to each other. Many people in Washington did have some idea how complex the problems they would face might be, but somehow all the people who saw the complexities were swept aside by the ideologues who didn’t. This is obvious and apparent from the public record of what has happened in Iraq.

Facts do matter, son, and one of these days I hope you will own up to them.

]]> by: jbiccum http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/26/the-coming-outrage/#comment-220774 Mon, 28 May 2007 19:48:39 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/26/the-coming-outrage/#comment-220774 Umm, maybe you guys should read this article in the Ny Times. Kinda blows your whole argument up. I will most likely be deleted though. http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10D13FF3F5A0C758CDDA80894DB404482 Oh well, facts dont really matter, right? Umm, maybe you guys should read this article in the Ny Times. Kinda blows your whole argument up. I will most likely be deleted though.

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10D13FF3F5A0C758CDDA80894DB404482

Oh well, facts dont really matter, right?

]]> by: Dogstar http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/26/the-coming-outrage/#comment-220579 Mon, 28 May 2007 00:15:54 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/26/the-coming-outrage/#comment-220579 If the CIA said WMDs were a slam dunk, why do we care what they said about anything else? If the CIA said WMDs were a slam dunk, why do we care what they said about anything else?

]]> by: R.L.Page http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/26/the-coming-outrage/#comment-220572 Sun, 27 May 2007 22:33:58 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/26/the-coming-outrage/#comment-220572 Apparently, it tickled Mr. G as well; (although, in perhaps a different way) : http://proteinwisdom.com/index.php?/weblog/entry/23168/#comments But think nothing of it; it is always a pleasure to chap Mr. G's much-too-thin hide. Apparently, it tickled Mr. G as well; (although, in perhaps a different way) :

http://proteinwisdom.com/index.php?/weblog/entry/23168/#comments

But think nothing of it; it is always a pleasure to chap Mr. G’s much-too-thin hide.

]]> by: joanr16 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/26/the-coming-outrage/#comment-220568 Sun, 27 May 2007 22:12:22 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/26/the-coming-outrage/#comment-220568 R.L. Page (#18), you made my entire weekend. R.L. Page (#18), you made my entire weekend.

]]> by: felicity http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/26/the-coming-outrage/#comment-220561 Sun, 27 May 2007 21:17:56 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/26/the-coming-outrage/#comment-220561 I have to agree with Donna, comment #3. Oil? Who knows? It is food for thought that Bremer on being advised that the meters monitoring oil at pumping stations were either not working at all or were basically so inaccurate as to be useless, refused to replace them. As a result the bulk of Iraqi oil has been available, practically unrestricted to the black-market crowd. Perhaps someone can explain Bremer's decision? I have to agree with Donna, comment #3.

Oil? Who knows? It is food for thought that Bremer on being advised that the meters monitoring oil at pumping stations were either not working at all or were basically so inaccurate as to be useless, refused to replace them. As a result the bulk of Iraqi oil has been available, practically unrestricted to the black-market crowd. Perhaps someone can explain Bremer’s decision?

]]> by: priscianus jr http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/26/the-coming-outrage/#comment-220550 Sun, 27 May 2007 20:00:23 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/26/the-coming-outrage/#comment-220550 Sorry, that should have been SIBEL Edmonds. Sorry, that should have been SIBEL Edmonds.

]]> by: priscianus jr http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/26/the-coming-outrage/#comment-220543 Sun, 27 May 2007 19:44:40 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/05/26/the-coming-outrage/#comment-220543 The thing about Saddam being behind the OK City bombing is part of the BS long pushed by Laurie Mylroie, who was widely cited by the neocons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurie_Mylroie I think what Maha's saying (in the comments), and which I agree with, is that, sure, oil was behind the invasion of Iraq -- that was largely Cheney's baby -- but oil was not the neocon take on it, yet at the same time the neocon take was very useful to the oil guys, because "ushering in a new world of democracy" sounds better than "we want their oil." I would add, I don't think all the neocons are the same. Perle, for example, is clearly a realpolitik guy with close connections to armaments, security technology, and news media -- and he has made lots of dough in the post-9/11 world. In all probability he, Marc Grossman & others are also into all sorts of illegal trafficking, if you follow Sybil Edmonds. But even Perle, I don't think, is directly connected with the oil and pipeline industry. Guys like Wolfowitz and Libby, on the other hand, are "useful idiots," with all their stupid fantasies. BTW, it is very instructive to contemplate just what kind of idiots they are -- highly educated, learned, sophisticated, well-connected -- and totally lacking in any common sense, real intellectual depth, or genuine morality. As Maha says. "the worst pack of losers and idots that ever ran a government." Names that will WHAT in infamy? The thing about Saddam being behind the OK City bombing is part of the BS long pushed by Laurie Mylroie, who was widely cited by the neocons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurie_Mylroie

I think what Maha’s saying (in the comments), and which I agree with, is that, sure, oil was behind the invasion of Iraq — that was largely Cheney’s baby — but oil was not the neocon take on it, yet at the same time the neocon take was very useful to the oil guys, because “ushering in a new world of democracy” sounds better than “we want their oil.” I would add, I don’t think all the neocons are the same. Perle, for example, is clearly a realpolitik guy with close connections to armaments, security technology, and news media — and he has made lots of dough in the post-9/11 world. In all probability he, Marc Grossman & others are also into all sorts of illegal trafficking, if you follow Sybil Edmonds. But even Perle, I don’t think, is directly connected with the oil and pipeline industry. Guys like Wolfowitz and Libby, on the other hand, are “useful idiots,” with all their stupid fantasies. BTW, it is very instructive to contemplate just what kind of idiots they are — highly educated, learned, sophisticated, well-connected — and totally lacking in any common sense, real intellectual depth, or genuine morality. As Maha says. “the worst pack of losers and idots that ever ran a government.”
Names that will WHAT in infamy?

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