Comments on: The Road to Serfdom http://www.mahablog.com/2007/08/31/the-road-to-serfdom/ Exposing the ugly truths about the Bush Administration. Mon, 13 Oct 2008 18:08:38 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1.3 by: SecondTake http://www.mahablog.com/2007/08/31/the-road-to-serfdom/#comment-546646 Sat, 30 Aug 2008 05:36:07 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/08/31/the-road-to-serfdom/#comment-546646 "BTW, How much did a “serf” have to pay to his “lord” under ‘feudalism’?" Serfs were largely involuntary sharecroppers. They were loaned a small plot of land to grow their own crops, and in exchange were obliged to work the other land to produce for the Lord and his entourage. Not only didn't they own the land, they were "bound" to it - they couldn't leave the estate without the noble's permission. Largely, labor and barter were the units of economic exchange; money hardly circulated outside the top 5% of the rural population. Perhaps the single greatest contributing factor to the rise of classic serfdom was the military protection that the local ruler provided, under near anarchic conditions, that was a compelling reason for the former agricultural class - descendents of slaves and small farmers - to accept the deal. Most historians believe that what gradually ended serfdom in Western Europe (it prevailed in Eastern Europe into the beginning of he 20th Century), was the Black Death which created a massive labor shortage that broke down the economic basis of the system. “BTW, How much did a “serf” have to pay to his “lord” under ‘feudalism’?”

Serfs were largely involuntary sharecroppers. They were loaned a small plot of land to grow their own crops, and in exchange were obliged to work the other land to produce for the Lord and his entourage. Not only didn’t they own the land, they were “bound” to it - they couldn’t leave the estate without the noble’s permission. Largely, labor and barter were the units of economic exchange; money hardly circulated outside the top 5% of the rural population.

Perhaps the single greatest contributing factor to the rise of classic serfdom was the military protection that the local ruler provided, under near anarchic conditions, that was a compelling reason for the former agricultural class - descendents of slaves and small farmers - to accept the deal.

Most historians believe that what gradually ended serfdom in Western Europe (it prevailed in Eastern Europe into the beginning of he 20th Century), was the Black Death which created a massive labor shortage that broke down the economic basis of the system.

]]> by: The Mahablog » Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness http://www.mahablog.com/2007/08/31/the-road-to-serfdom/#comment-327994 Wed, 17 Oct 2007 13:55:56 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/08/31/the-road-to-serfdom/#comment-327994 [...] In America, once upon a time, most people who weren’t slaves or servants were, in effect, self-employed. The whopping majority of free people were farmers. A young person might work for someone else for a while to learn a trade, with the expectation that he would strike out on his own when he was ready. In the 19th century, as the industrial revolution pulled people off farms and into factories, having to work for someone else was derided as “wage slavery.” Now, holding a job is not only respectable, it’s expected. A job isn’t slavery if you can walk away from it, right? But for growing numbers of Americans the system is rigged so that they can’t walk away from it. Call it “insurance slavery.” Road to serfdom, anyone? [...] […] In America, once upon a time, most people who weren’t slaves or servants were, in effect, self-employed. The whopping majority of free people were farmers. A young person might work for someone else for a while to learn a trade, with the expectation that he would strike out on his own when he was ready. In the 19th century, as the industrial revolution pulled people off farms and into factories, having to work for someone else was derided as “wage slavery.” Now, holding a job is not only respectable, it’s expected. A job isn’t slavery if you can walk away from it, right? But for growing numbers of Americans the system is rigged so that they can’t walk away from it. Call it “insurance slavery.” Road to serfdom, anyone? […]

]]> by: A Holiday Detached from its History « Just Above Sunset http://www.mahablog.com/2007/08/31/the-road-to-serfdom/#comment-277509 Tue, 04 Sep 2007 04:30:47 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/08/31/the-road-to-serfdom/#comment-277509 [...] Government will crush the unions – Reagan led the way with the air traffic controllers union – and will not do much for those who keeps whining “not fair.”  That’s the way it is, and that worries Barbara O’Brien, as she explains here – [...] […] Government will crush the unions – Reagan led the way with the air traffic controllers union – and will not do much for those who keeps whining “not fair.”  That’s the way it is, and that worries Barbara O’Brien, as she explains here – […]

]]> by: Mike the Mad Biologist http://www.mahablog.com/2007/08/31/the-road-to-serfdom/#comment-277104 Mon, 03 Sep 2007 01:04:08 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/08/31/the-road-to-serfdom/#comment-277104 <strong>Some Sunday Links</strong> It's the 'freshmen are invading Boston' links edition. By the way, if you're at the corner of Exeter and Boylston and you can't find the Prudential Center--which is right below the really tall building that has "PRUDENTIAL" on it--you are prima... Some Sunday Links

It’s the ‘freshmen are invading Boston’ links edition. By the way, if you’re at the corner of Exeter and Boylston and you can’t find the Prudential Center–which is right below the really tall building that has “PRUDENTIAL” on it–you are prima…

]]> by: maha http://www.mahablog.com/2007/08/31/the-road-to-serfdom/#comment-276905 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 23:25:55 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/08/31/the-road-to-serfdom/#comment-276905 Al #14 -- you must have some imagination to connect the War Production Board to Social Security. Al #14 — you must have some imagination to connect the War Production Board to Social Security.

]]> by: I am AlGore's sweaty backfat http://www.mahablog.com/2007/08/31/the-road-to-serfdom/#comment-276893 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 21:43:46 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/08/31/the-road-to-serfdom/#comment-276893 <i>Hayek’s first step, “war forces national planning” of the economy, was no doubt a swipe at Franklin Roosevelt’s War Production Board, which I notice did not lead to serfdom.</i> Meanwhile, even the <i>very poorest</i> among us are <i>now</i> <b>forced</b> to pay 12.6% of their income so that Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, Lorena Helmsley, et al. will receive their "Socialist InSecurity" check... BTW, How much did a "serf" have to pay to his "lord" under 'feudalism'? <b>"We're <i>Not</i> Serfs!</b><i> (because I said so...)</i>". Hayek’s first step, “war forces national planning” of the economy, was no doubt a swipe at Franklin Roosevelt’s War Production Board, which I notice did not lead to serfdom.

Meanwhile, even the very poorest among us are now forced to pay 12.6% of their income so that Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, Lorena Helmsley, et al. will receive their “Socialist InSecurity” check…

BTW, How much did a “serf” have to pay to his “lord” under ‘feudalism’?

“We’re Not Serfs! (because I said so…)“.

]]> by: The Mahablog » Divided and Conquered http://www.mahablog.com/2007/08/31/the-road-to-serfdom/#comment-276843 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:26:35 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/08/31/the-road-to-serfdom/#comment-276843 [...] There were a lot of great comments to yesterday&#8217;s Road to Serfdom post, and I want to keep the discussion going. [...] […] There were a lot of great comments to yesterday’s Road to Serfdom post, and I want to keep the discussion going. […]

]]> by: steven andresen http://www.mahablog.com/2007/08/31/the-road-to-serfdom/#comment-276758 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 07:09:21 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/08/31/the-road-to-serfdom/#comment-276758 Here's some support for my claim that people think poor suffering folks "got it coming to them." http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=10&#38;ItemID=13662 The piece starts out arguing that people who are losing their houses bcause they can't keep up with the payments should have anticipated the problem. Here’s some support for my claim that people think poor suffering folks “got it coming to them.”

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=10&ItemID=13662

The piece starts out arguing that people who are losing their houses bcause they can’t keep up with the payments should have anticipated the problem.

]]> by: steven andresen http://www.mahablog.com/2007/08/31/the-road-to-serfdom/#comment-276755 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 06:19:03 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/08/31/the-road-to-serfdom/#comment-276755 You wrote, " E.J. Dionne wonders why the rising number of uninsured Americans isn’t getting more news coverage." Well, we all wonder about this. But I think it has to do with the idea that not only is there something wrong with working for peace, but there's alspo something evil about being concerned about the poor, or the plight of anyone who hasn't made it big. The idea about peace is that by being concerned about peace, one lays open our country to the terrorists who don't care about peace except to use peace advocates as dupes. The idea about our concern for the poor or suffering probably goes about the same. By being concerned about suffering we coddle these people. The sympathy generated for sick kids, or families devastaed by unemployment or medical catastrophes, is used just to undermine the success of those people who have made it. The poor and sick are just burdens on our otherwise glorious society. The upshot would be, I suppose, that instyead of giving suffering humanity any notice, we just ignore them like so many panhandlers who try our patience asking for a few pennies. People who are not now suffering from any economic downturn don't want to pay any attention to these stories about Katrina or medical insurance catastrophes because these stories can be ignored. They don't pay any attention because most people, apparently, believe it could never happen to them, and that it only encourages them, the poor, to complain more instead of doing anything to help themselves by paying attention to them. That is,, people have to be in denial about how everyone is connected. You wrote,

” E.J. Dionne wonders why the rising number of uninsured Americans isn’t getting more news coverage.” Well, we all wonder about this. But I think it has to do with the idea that not only is there something wrong with working for peace, but there’s alspo something evil about being concerned about the poor, or the plight of anyone who hasn’t made it big.

The idea about peace is that by being concerned about peace, one lays open our country to the terrorists who don’t care about peace except to use peace advocates as dupes.

The idea about our concern for the poor or suffering probably goes about the same. By being concerned about suffering we coddle these people. The sympathy generated for sick kids, or families devastaed by unemployment or medical catastrophes, is used just to undermine the success of those people who have made it. The poor and sick are just burdens on our otherwise glorious society. The upshot would be, I suppose, that instyead of giving suffering humanity any notice, we just ignore them like so many panhandlers who try our patience asking for a few pennies.

People who are not now suffering from any economic downturn don’t want to pay any attention to these stories about Katrina or medical insurance catastrophes because these stories can be ignored. They don’t pay any attention because most people, apparently, believe it could never happen to them, and that it only encourages them, the poor, to complain more instead of doing anything to help themselves by paying attention to them.

That is,, people have to be in denial about how everyone is connected.

]]> by: k http://www.mahablog.com/2007/08/31/the-road-to-serfdom/#comment-276722 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 02:07:17 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/2007/08/31/the-road-to-serfdom/#comment-276722 We will have many years of diminishment and decline. As long as people do not realize what accepting others definitions of 'the problem" is doing to the whole country it will go on. What the right has succeeded in doing is brainwashing a couple of generations that all the problems are individuals' fault and responsibility and that group action( group insurance, group investment, group labor, even group retirement, group education, group military service) is evil and inefficient. They want to destroy public education, public retirement, public service, public military service, public investment, public works, public 'insurance'. Give it all over to private interest so someone can get wealthy off of what used to be a public good and turn it into exploitation of individuals who have no power to fight large powerful interests. And yes welfare is great when it all goes to the few very wealthy to the toadies and the contributers. They just redirected government benefit to their little club and have loosed the vultures on what used to be a middle class america with economic and political stability. divide and conquer indeed. We will have many years of diminishment and decline. As long as people do not realize what accepting others definitions of ‘the problem” is doing to the whole country it will go on. What the right has succeeded in doing is brainwashing a couple of generations that all the problems are individuals’ fault and responsibility and that group action( group insurance, group investment, group labor, even group retirement, group education, group military service) is evil and inefficient. They want to destroy public education, public retirement, public service, public military service, public investment, public works, public ‘insurance’. Give it all over to private interest so someone can get wealthy off of what used to be a public good and turn it into exploitation of individuals who have no power to fight large powerful interests. And yes welfare is great when it all goes to the few very wealthy to the toadies and the contributers. They just redirected government benefit to their little club and have loosed the vultures on what used to be a middle class america with economic and political stability. divide and conquer indeed.

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