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	<title>Comments on: Tribal Loyalty and Free Expression</title>
	<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/09/15/tribal-loyalty-and-free-expression/</link>
	<description>Exposing the ugly truths about the Bush Administration.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: maha</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/09/15/tribal-loyalty-and-free-expression/#comment-281698</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 23:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/09/15/tribal-loyalty-and-free-expression/#comment-281698</guid>
					<description>Jewboy -- Thanks for proving my point. Also, learn to read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Jewboy &#8212; Thanks for proving my point. Also, learn to read.
</p>
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		<title>by: Jewboy</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/09/15/tribal-loyalty-and-free-expression/#comment-281683</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 23:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/09/15/tribal-loyalty-and-free-expression/#comment-281683</guid>
					<description>It's amazin' to see the faulty thinking here.  Ya'all need to study the rules of logical fallacy &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.csun.edu/%7Edgw61315/fallacies.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, not to mention &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.megat.co.uk/wrong/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.

It's pretty obvious after reading some of these pro-Walt and Mearsheimer blogs just why Jews are so over-represented in the legal and medical professions, in art, in music, and other fields requiring high intelligence and high creativity, and why they win Nobel prizes way in excess of their percentage of the population.

It's because of their superior intellect, honed over centuries of placing extremely high value on learning rather than boozing and womanizing, and the intellectual midgetry of the competition.  Asians are the same way.  

You folks here exhibit the puny intellects of the lowbrow, of the racist, of the gutter dweller, I'm sorry to say.

There is one difference from eras past regarding Jews and llowbrow anti-semitic racist bigots:  the Jews are now not only intelligent, but also have learned from history and from the wisdom of one of the greatest Judeochristian sages of all time that &quot;A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan.&quot;   

Indeed, Jews in the U.S. take that to the next level.  A critical mass of American Jews are armed.  They don't march into the pit anymore.  Rather, you attempt to harm them, you get a hot lead surprise.

If you really want to hurt or kill the Jews inthe 21st century, now you'll have to do it on the street.  Of course, you then have to pray to whatever god(s) you worship that you won't find the answer to the eternal question &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyser_S%C3%B6ze&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Who is Keyser Soze&lt;/a&gt;?&quot; delivered to your doorstep.

&lt;b&gt;Yes, it appears the Jews will do well in the twenty-first century&lt;/b&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It&#8217;s amazin&#8217; to see the faulty thinking here.  Ya&#8217;all need to study the rules of logical fallacy <a href="http://www.csun.edu/%7Edgw61315/fallacies.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>, not to mention <a href="http://www.megat.co.uk/wrong/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
	<p>It&#8217;s pretty obvious after reading some of these pro-Walt and Mearsheimer blogs just why Jews are so over-represented in the legal and medical professions, in art, in music, and other fields requiring high intelligence and high creativity, and why they win Nobel prizes way in excess of their percentage of the population.</p>
	<p>It&#8217;s because of their superior intellect, honed over centuries of placing extremely high value on learning rather than boozing and womanizing, and the intellectual midgetry of the competition.  Asians are the same way.  </p>
	<p>You folks here exhibit the puny intellects of the lowbrow, of the racist, of the gutter dweller, I&#8217;m sorry to say.</p>
	<p>There is one difference from eras past regarding Jews and llowbrow anti-semitic racist bigots:  the Jews are now not only intelligent, but also have learned from history and from the wisdom of one of the greatest Judeochristian sages of all time that &#8220;A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan.&#8221;   </p>
	<p>Indeed, Jews in the U.S. take that to the next level.  A critical mass of American Jews are armed.  They don&#8217;t march into the pit anymore.  Rather, you attempt to harm them, you get a hot lead surprise.</p>
	<p>If you really want to hurt or kill the Jews inthe 21st century, now you&#8217;ll have to do it on the street.  Of course, you then have to pray to whatever god(s) you worship that you won&#8217;t find the answer to the eternal question &#8220;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyser_S%C3%B6ze" rel="nofollow">Who is Keyser Soze</a>?&#8221; delivered to your doorstep.</p>
	<p><b>Yes, it appears the Jews will do well in the twenty-first century</b>.
</p>
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		<title>by: Eris</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/09/15/tribal-loyalty-and-free-expression/#comment-281512</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2007 23:23:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/09/15/tribal-loyalty-and-free-expression/#comment-281512</guid>
					<description>Maha writes:  &lt;i&gt;I know propaganda when I see it, too. This is not an academic critique of Walt-Mearsheimer. Don’t bother me with crap like this.&lt;/i&gt;

Why don't you explain what items are &quot;propaganda.&quot;

Further, academia is so corrupt, you should believe very little that comes from there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Maha writes:  <i>I know propaganda when I see it, too. This is not an academic critique of Walt-Mearsheimer. Don’t bother me with crap like this.</i></p>
	<p>Why don&#8217;t you explain what items are &#8220;propaganda.&#8221;</p>
	<p>Further, academia is so corrupt, you should believe very little that comes from there.
</p>
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		<title>by: Elblot</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/09/15/tribal-loyalty-and-free-expression/#comment-281281</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 22:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/09/15/tribal-loyalty-and-free-expression/#comment-281281</guid>
					<description>Maha - Someday soon I will be gutsy enough to spend the time to write it better and post it on the Great Orange Satan :)

Thanks for the kind words and keep up the great work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Maha - Someday soon I will be gutsy enough to spend the time to write it better and post it on the Great Orange Satan <img src='http://www.mahablog.com/wp-images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
	<p>Thanks for the kind words and keep up the great work.
</p>
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		<title>by: Yahoo Finance &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Tribal Loyalty and Free Expression</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/09/15/tribal-loyalty-and-free-expression/#comment-281266</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:57:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/09/15/tribal-loyalty-and-free-expression/#comment-281266</guid>
					<description>[...] Tribal Loyalty and Free Expression A couple of weeks ago I wrote a post about the role of scripture in either causing or justifying armed conflicts around the planet. The &amp;#8220;hook&amp;#8221; for the post was an article by a Turkish Muslim who argued that Muslim extremists don’t learn to hate from reading the Koran. They hate, and then&amp;#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[&#8230;] Tribal Loyalty and Free Expression A couple of weeks ago I wrote a post about the role of scripture in either causing or justifying armed conflicts around the planet. The &#8220;hook&#8221; for the post was an article by a Turkish Muslim who argued that Muslim extremists don’t learn to hate from reading the Koran. They hate, and then&#8230; [&#8230;]
</p>
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		<title>by: maha</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/09/15/tribal-loyalty-and-free-expression/#comment-281258</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 18:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/09/15/tribal-loyalty-and-free-expression/#comment-281258</guid>
					<description>Elblot -- thank you for a gutsy comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Elblot &#8212; thank you for a gutsy comment.
</p>
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		<title>by: maha</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/09/15/tribal-loyalty-and-free-expression/#comment-281257</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 18:05:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/09/15/tribal-loyalty-and-free-expression/#comment-281257</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;For a concise overview of the problems with the Walt-Mearsheimer essay and book, see the 5 page pdf at this link.&lt;/i&gt;

I know propaganda when I see it, too. This is not an academic critique of Walt-Mearsheimer. Don't bother me with crap like this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>For a concise overview of the problems with the Walt-Mearsheimer essay and book, see the 5 page pdf at this link.</i></p>
	<p>I know propaganda when I see it, too. This is not an academic critique of Walt-Mearsheimer. Don&#8217;t bother me with crap like this.
</p>
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		<title>by: Eris</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/09/15/tribal-loyalty-and-free-expression/#comment-281253</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:16:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/09/15/tribal-loyalty-and-free-expression/#comment-281253</guid>
					<description>For a concise overview of the problems with the Walt-Mearsheimer essay and book, see the 5 page pdf at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.standwithus.com/pdfs/flyers/WM_Booklet.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this link&lt;/a&gt;.  

This pdf is being widely disseminated in academia, industry and government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>For a concise overview of the problems with the Walt-Mearsheimer essay and book, see the 5 page pdf at <a href="http://www.standwithus.com/pdfs/flyers/WM_Booklet.pdf" rel="nofollow">this link</a>.  </p>
	<p>This pdf is being widely disseminated in academia, industry and government.
</p>
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		<title>by: felicity</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/09/15/tribal-loyalty-and-free-expression/#comment-281246</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/09/15/tribal-loyalty-and-free-expression/#comment-281246</guid>
					<description>Where liberty is oppressed, dogmatism and fanaticism result.  By not resisting those who would limit our liberty by limiting our speech, we are nurturing dogmatism and fanaticism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Where liberty is oppressed, dogmatism and fanaticism result.  By not resisting those who would limit our liberty by limiting our speech, we are nurturing dogmatism and fanaticism.
</p>
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		<title>by: Elblot</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/09/15/tribal-loyalty-and-free-expression/#comment-281239</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/09/15/tribal-loyalty-and-free-expression/#comment-281239</guid>
					<description>Maha,

Thank you for excellent blog and this excellent post in particular.  It amazes me how even many of my supposedly liberal friends believe that:
1.  The Koran commands Muslims to kill all non-Muslims all the time.
2.  Muslims do not worship the same God as Jews and Christians.
3.  Islam itself is the principle cause of &quot;terrorism&quot; and the greatest single threat to world stability.

I could not agree with you more - people will use religion to justify their pre-existing beliefs whenever they can.  This has nothing to do with the specific religion in question and everything to do with human nature as you say.

But more specifically - and personally - about the Walt / Meerschemer (sp?) articles and books.

I was born a Jew, grew up in a primarily Jewish neighborhood in New York City and went to a high school that was 70% Jewish.  Like all of my friends, I was raised to believe that Israel was the greatest thing to happen to humanity since...well forever.  I read Golda Meyer's autobiography, Miracle at Entebbe, Exodus, and more books that I can remember that reinforced these myths.

I was proud of Israel and proud to associate myself with that country.

That started to change for me when I read Tom Friedman's &quot;From Beirut to Jerusalem&quot;.  I wonder what happened to him since he wrote that book, but this was the first I had heard of the deep flaws within Israeli society and I still admire the intellectual honesty and courage it took for him to come to his conclusions.

I went on to read &quot;Strangers in the House&quot; by Raja Shehadeh and a whole new world was opened to me.  Since that time, I have learned a great deal about the situation and I can say I have experienced a true conversion on the topic.  In truth, if I had more confidence that the Holocaust could not be repeated here in the U.S, I would find a way to officially renounce my &quot;right of return&quot;.  Unfortunately I am still hedging my bets on that topic.

And this brings me to the essence of what motivated to finally (after reading your blog for 2+ years) to write a comment.  I believe that many neo-conservative Jews have indeed &quot;hijacked&quot; American policy to further Israeli interests.  I accept that they believe that American and Israeli interests are one and the same in a big picture &quot;ends justifies the means&quot; sort of way, but I certainly do not agree with this opinion in any way.  While, as Mr. Walt said on Fresh Air with Terry Gross last week, you certainly can not lay the blame for the Iraq fiasco entirely with the Paul Wolfowitz's of the world, their prominent role can not be denied.  As he also stated, polling indicated that a majority of American Jews opposed this war, but unfortunately we are not as well organized and funded as AIPAC, JDL and their allies.

My worst nightmare is to see the headline “the Jews lied to us and led us into Iraq to help Israel” appear on a right wing blog.  This theme would fit so well into their racist narrative that I have to believe it is only a matter of time.

In my heart, I believe that many of the Jewish neo-conservatives  have betrayed the country that opened its arms to us when we were persecuted by the most of the rest of the world.  As American Jews, there is no greater threat to our continued prosperity and well-being in this country.  Sorry for the rambling and poorly written post, but basically I just want to personally thanks you for fighting this battle for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Maha,</p>
	<p>Thank you for excellent blog and this excellent post in particular.  It amazes me how even many of my supposedly liberal friends believe that:<br />
1.  The Koran commands Muslims to kill all non-Muslims all the time.<br />
2.  Muslims do not worship the same God as Jews and Christians.<br />
3.  Islam itself is the principle cause of &#8220;terrorism&#8221; and the greatest single threat to world stability.</p>
	<p>I could not agree with you more - people will use religion to justify their pre-existing beliefs whenever they can.  This has nothing to do with the specific religion in question and everything to do with human nature as you say.</p>
	<p>But more specifically - and personally - about the Walt / Meerschemer (sp?) articles and books.</p>
	<p>I was born a Jew, grew up in a primarily Jewish neighborhood in New York City and went to a high school that was 70% Jewish.  Like all of my friends, I was raised to believe that Israel was the greatest thing to happen to humanity since&#8230;well forever.  I read Golda Meyer&#8217;s autobiography, Miracle at Entebbe, Exodus, and more books that I can remember that reinforced these myths.</p>
	<p>I was proud of Israel and proud to associate myself with that country.</p>
	<p>That started to change for me when I read Tom Friedman&#8217;s &#8220;From Beirut to Jerusalem&#8221;.  I wonder what happened to him since he wrote that book, but this was the first I had heard of the deep flaws within Israeli society and I still admire the intellectual honesty and courage it took for him to come to his conclusions.</p>
	<p>I went on to read &#8220;Strangers in the House&#8221; by Raja Shehadeh and a whole new world was opened to me.  Since that time, I have learned a great deal about the situation and I can say I have experienced a true conversion on the topic.  In truth, if I had more confidence that the Holocaust could not be repeated here in the U.S, I would find a way to officially renounce my &#8220;right of return&#8221;.  Unfortunately I am still hedging my bets on that topic.</p>
	<p>And this brings me to the essence of what motivated to finally (after reading your blog for 2+ years) to write a comment.  I believe that many neo-conservative Jews have indeed &#8220;hijacked&#8221; American policy to further Israeli interests.  I accept that they believe that American and Israeli interests are one and the same in a big picture &#8220;ends justifies the means&#8221; sort of way, but I certainly do not agree with this opinion in any way.  While, as Mr. Walt said on Fresh Air with Terry Gross last week, you certainly can not lay the blame for the Iraq fiasco entirely with the Paul Wolfowitz&#8217;s of the world, their prominent role can not be denied.  As he also stated, polling indicated that a majority of American Jews opposed this war, but unfortunately we are not as well organized and funded as AIPAC, JDL and their allies.</p>
	<p>My worst nightmare is to see the headline “the Jews lied to us and led us into Iraq to help Israel” appear on a right wing blog.  This theme would fit so well into their racist narrative that I have to believe it is only a matter of time.</p>
	<p>In my heart, I believe that many of the Jewish neo-conservatives  have betrayed the country that opened its arms to us when we were persecuted by the most of the rest of the world.  As American Jews, there is no greater threat to our continued prosperity and well-being in this country.  Sorry for the rambling and poorly written post, but basically I just want to personally thanks you for fighting this battle for me.
</p>
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