<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: No Room at the Maternity Ward</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.mahablog.com/2007/10/18/no-room-at-the-maternity-ward/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/10/18/no-room-at-the-maternity-ward/</link>
	<description>Making the World Safe for Liberalism</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 02:42:29 -0700</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Elena Thomson</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/10/18/no-room-at-the-maternity-ward/comment-page-1/#comment-400524</link>
		<dc:creator>Elena Thomson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 16:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2203#comment-400524</guid>
		<description>I am a US citizen, but reside in the UK. I recently gave birth to my first baby here in the UK. I would like to say that the NHS provides EXCELLENT maternity care. I was seen regularly by my GP and a midwife for prenatal care. I was referred when necessary to specialists in a timely manner. I was given an amniocentesis at my request and the procedure was carried out by two competent specialists. Results were given in a timely fashion. My baby was born by emergency c-section and I could not have felt more confident in the care I was given. Postnatal care entails a midwife visiting the house daily for the first two weeks after discharge from hospital and then a health visitor comes for another month. After that there are health clinics in each area of the city that mothers can bring their babies to and seek advice from two nurses on duty. All prescriptions for the baby are FREE as well as dental care until the child is 16 years old. In addition, all medication for the mother during pregnancy and for one year after the baby&#039;s birth are also FREE. AND I am off on 6 months paid maternity leave and will take another 6 months unpaid - which is my statutory right in this country. I found much to complain about in the UK until I had my baby. Now I am very grateful and proud to be living in a country that takes such good care of its people. I plan to become a UK citizen and my experience with the NHS is certainly a contributing factor in this decision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a US citizen, but reside in the UK. I recently gave birth to my first baby here in the UK. I would like to say that the NHS provides EXCELLENT maternity care. I was seen regularly by my GP and a midwife for prenatal care. I was referred when necessary to specialists in a timely manner. I was given an amniocentesis at my request and the procedure was carried out by two competent specialists. Results were given in a timely fashion. My baby was born by emergency c-section and I could not have felt more confident in the care I was given. Postnatal care entails a midwife visiting the house daily for the first two weeks after discharge from hospital and then a health visitor comes for another month. After that there are health clinics in each area of the city that mothers can bring their babies to and seek advice from two nurses on duty. All prescriptions for the baby are FREE as well as dental care until the child is 16 years old. In addition, all medication for the mother during pregnancy and for one year after the baby&#8217;s birth are also FREE. AND I am off on 6 months paid maternity leave and will take another 6 months unpaid &#8211; which is my statutory right in this country. I found much to complain about in the UK until I had my baby. Now I am very grateful and proud to be living in a country that takes such good care of its people. I plan to become a UK citizen and my experience with the NHS is certainly a contributing factor in this decision.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Mahablog &#187; Surviving</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/10/18/no-room-at-the-maternity-ward/comment-page-1/#comment-371043</link>
		<dc:creator>The Mahablog &#187; Surviving</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Nov 2007 13:52:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2203#comment-371043</guid>
		<description>[...] After one of my recent health care rants a rightie commenter wrote, &#8220;Life expecvtancy has little to do with health care. Cancer survival rates do. Post them.&#8221; Here you are, dude. Enjoy.    Spotlight [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] After one of my recent health care rants a rightie commenter wrote, &#8220;Life expecvtancy has little to do with health care. Cancer survival rates do. Post them.&#8221; Here you are, dude. Enjoy.    Spotlight [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jesurgislac</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/10/18/no-room-at-the-maternity-ward/comment-page-1/#comment-338600</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesurgislac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:54:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2203#comment-338600</guid>
		<description>FWIW, the standard in the UK now is &lt;i&gt;supposed&lt;/i&gt; to be that every pregnant woman gets to decide for herself whether she wants to have the baby at home or in the hospital. Obviously, some women &lt;i&gt;should&lt;/i&gt; go to hospital to deliver, or with some pregnancies, should: but that is a matter of medical advice between physician (and midwife) and the woman herself. 

Practically speaking, of course, areas vary, and doctors sometimes recommend a hospital delivery mainly because it&#039;s going to be easier for them rather than because it&#039;s medically necessary. But post-partum infections tend to be a lot lower with home deliveries*, and post-partum depression rates tend to be lower, because the woman feels in control of delivery. 

*In a hospital, you&#039;re encountering everyone else&#039;s germs. At home, it&#039;s just yours and your family&#039;s, and you&#039;ve likely already got immunity to them which you pass on to your infant via breastmilk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FWIW, the standard in the UK now is <i>supposed</i> to be that every pregnant woman gets to decide for herself whether she wants to have the baby at home or in the hospital. Obviously, some women <i>should</i> go to hospital to deliver, or with some pregnancies, should: but that is a matter of medical advice between physician (and midwife) and the woman herself. </p>
<p>Practically speaking, of course, areas vary, and doctors sometimes recommend a hospital delivery mainly because it&#8217;s going to be easier for them rather than because it&#8217;s medically necessary. But post-partum infections tend to be a lot lower with home deliveries*, and post-partum depression rates tend to be lower, because the woman feels in control of delivery. </p>
<p>*In a hospital, you&#8217;re encountering everyone else&#8217;s germs. At home, it&#8217;s just yours and your family&#8217;s, and you&#8217;ve likely already got immunity to them which you pass on to your infant via breastmilk.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/10/18/no-room-at-the-maternity-ward/comment-page-1/#comment-334143</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:02:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2203#comment-334143</guid>
		<description>As Steven Colbert says...

The facts have a well known liberal bias.

Nice research.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Steven Colbert says&#8230;</p>
<p>The facts have a well known liberal bias.</p>
<p>Nice research.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lucy Kemnitzer</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/10/18/no-room-at-the-maternity-ward/comment-page-1/#comment-333679</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucy Kemnitzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 04:31:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2203#comment-333679</guid>
		<description>I just don&#039;t know what to say when people say that birthing is not a medical situation and women should just have their babies at home anyways.  If I had stuck to that idea I would very likely have died, or been seriously damaged, and so would my first child.  Instead, I had the benefits of a midwife and a doctor, which meant that I went to the hospital, had some serious interventions -- along with the kind of attention to the process that goes with the midwife approach -- and I lived, and so did my child (who is now in medical school in an East European country).  

Yes, birthing is natural.  But so is dying in childbirth.  It&#039;s not acceptable to me to reject the help that modern medicine can give to a difficult and often dangerous process.  

On the other hand, women are misled when they are told that a cesarean is an easier way to go, all other things being equal.  Just the greater risk of infection ought to be enough to deter a mother from choosing a cesarean she has no special reason to need. I narrowly got to avoid the cesarean in my second, also high-risk pregnancy, and the recovery was much easier in every way.  A doctor who does more than -- is it 20%? -- of cesareans, unless he specializes in high risk pregnancies, is probably out of line, and is not doing all his patients a favor.

Back to the point at hand:  I thought I had read an article a while back comparing in detail what USians get for their healthcare money, showing that we spend a hell of a lot for not much, compared to other people.  And, hell, arguing by anecdote might be good for the arguer&#039;s blood pressure (whoops, isn&#039;t that what I just did?), but for policy decisions, I want science and principle, not stories and bombast.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just don&#8217;t know what to say when people say that birthing is not a medical situation and women should just have their babies at home anyways.  If I had stuck to that idea I would very likely have died, or been seriously damaged, and so would my first child.  Instead, I had the benefits of a midwife and a doctor, which meant that I went to the hospital, had some serious interventions &#8212; along with the kind of attention to the process that goes with the midwife approach &#8212; and I lived, and so did my child (who is now in medical school in an East European country).  </p>
<p>Yes, birthing is natural.  But so is dying in childbirth.  It&#8217;s not acceptable to me to reject the help that modern medicine can give to a difficult and often dangerous process.  </p>
<p>On the other hand, women are misled when they are told that a cesarean is an easier way to go, all other things being equal.  Just the greater risk of infection ought to be enough to deter a mother from choosing a cesarean she has no special reason to need. I narrowly got to avoid the cesarean in my second, also high-risk pregnancy, and the recovery was much easier in every way.  A doctor who does more than &#8212; is it 20%? &#8212; of cesareans, unless he specializes in high risk pregnancies, is probably out of line, and is not doing all his patients a favor.</p>
<p>Back to the point at hand:  I thought I had read an article a while back comparing in detail what USians get for their healthcare money, showing that we spend a hell of a lot for not much, compared to other people.  And, hell, arguing by anecdote might be good for the arguer&#8217;s blood pressure (whoops, isn&#8217;t that what I just did?), but for policy decisions, I want science and principle, not stories and bombast.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mo</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/10/18/no-room-at-the-maternity-ward/comment-page-1/#comment-333229</link>
		<dc:creator>Mo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 02:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2203#comment-333229</guid>
		<description>What a lot of nonsense. OK, so this Hospital made a bad mistake and the tabloid papers needed a story for the day! The UK National Health Service may be flawed and stretched at times but it gives universal health care for all from the cradle to the grave. Nobody loses health care if they lose their job or has to sell their house if there is a serious illness in the family. It even looks after visitors from abroad free of charge if you become ill while here. &quot;Socialized&quot; medicine, works very well in most industrialized countries and you can take out extra private health insurance if you wish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a lot of nonsense. OK, so this Hospital made a bad mistake and the tabloid papers needed a story for the day! The UK National Health Service may be flawed and stretched at times but it gives universal health care for all from the cradle to the grave. Nobody loses health care if they lose their job or has to sell their house if there is a serious illness in the family. It even looks after visitors from abroad free of charge if you become ill while here. &#8220;Socialized&#8221; medicine, works very well in most industrialized countries and you can take out extra private health insurance if you wish.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: maha</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/10/18/no-room-at-the-maternity-ward/comment-page-1/#comment-331895</link>
		<dc:creator>maha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 21:50:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2203#comment-331895</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Some of the recent increase in the cesarian rate, though, is patient driven–mthere are many women don’t want to labor and come to the doctor’s office asking for cesarians.&lt;/i&gt;

They should be required to spend a couple of days observing postpartum women on a maternity ward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Some of the recent increase in the cesarian rate, though, is patient driven–mthere are many women don’t want to labor and come to the doctor’s office asking for cesarians.</i></p>
<p>They should be required to spend a couple of days observing postpartum women on a maternity ward.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dr. luba</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/10/18/no-room-at-the-maternity-ward/comment-page-1/#comment-331621</link>
		<dc:creator>dr. luba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 19:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2203#comment-331621</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;I’d do c sections every chance I got if I were a doctor and faced with a messy, tedious, long term thing like actual labor where I wasn’t getting paid to sit around and wait for the woman and hold her hand.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

I guess we should all be glad that you didn&#039;t go into medicine.  I&#039;m an OB/GYN, and have been out of residency for 20 years now.  It&#039;s a good thing that I, and most of my colleagues, have more patience than you do.  While labor can be long and tedious, most of us try to do cesarian sections for actual obstetric indications.  

Note that I said &quot;most.&quot;  Yes, there are some lazy docs who are quick to cut.  Some of the recent increase in the cesarian rate, though, is patient driven--mthere are many women don&#039;t want to labor and come to the doctor&#039;s office asking for cesarians.  Another part of the increase is due to studies which show an increased risk of uterine rupture in women with previous cesarians who choose to labor in subsequent pregnancies. Many doctors and patients are unwilling to shoulder such a risk. 

As for fetal heart rate monitoring--its use has not decreased the rate of cerebral palsy, it is true (which means that most CP is a &quot;pre-existing condition&quot;, and not the result of labor).  But it has decreased the rate of intrapartum (during labor) fetal death, and acute neonatal asphyxia, both the result of sudden catastrophic events. Having a nurse monitoring the heart rate every five minutes with a fetoscope or doppler would be as effective, if hospital budgets would allow for one-on-one nursing. They don&#039;t.

There are many people who can&#039;t intepret FHTs properly.  We do know what normal fetal heart tones look like during labor--when it comes to &quot;abnormal&quot; tones, though, there is a high false positive rate (normal babies with abnormal tracings). But catastrophically bad tones almost always bring about catastrophically bad outcomes unless an intervention is performed.

As for moving patients from a labor room to an OR--in most hospitals, the obstetric OR is part of the labor area, so this takes moments.  No matter how close you may live, you can&#039;t get from home to an operating room as quickly. If you were to experience massive intrapartum bleeding, as with a placental abruption, this could be the difference between life and death.

Anyways, for &lt;b&gt;location&lt;/b&gt; of births, the US is not an outlier in the western world.  The Netherlands, which strongly promotes home birth, has about a 30% rate.  The next highest rate is in the UK, which has a home birth rate of about 2%.  The rest of the West, us included, is in the less than 1% category.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;I’d do c sections every chance I got if I were a doctor and faced with a messy, tedious, long term thing like actual labor where I wasn’t getting paid to sit around and wait for the woman and hold her hand.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I guess we should all be glad that you didn&#8217;t go into medicine.  I&#8217;m an OB/GYN, and have been out of residency for 20 years now.  It&#8217;s a good thing that I, and most of my colleagues, have more patience than you do.  While labor can be long and tedious, most of us try to do cesarian sections for actual obstetric indications.  </p>
<p>Note that I said &#8220;most.&#8221;  Yes, there are some lazy docs who are quick to cut.  Some of the recent increase in the cesarian rate, though, is patient driven&#8211;mthere are many women don&#8217;t want to labor and come to the doctor&#8217;s office asking for cesarians.  Another part of the increase is due to studies which show an increased risk of uterine rupture in women with previous cesarians who choose to labor in subsequent pregnancies. Many doctors and patients are unwilling to shoulder such a risk. </p>
<p>As for fetal heart rate monitoring&#8211;its use has not decreased the rate of cerebral palsy, it is true (which means that most CP is a &#8220;pre-existing condition&#8221;, and not the result of labor).  But it has decreased the rate of intrapartum (during labor) fetal death, and acute neonatal asphyxia, both the result of sudden catastrophic events. Having a nurse monitoring the heart rate every five minutes with a fetoscope or doppler would be as effective, if hospital budgets would allow for one-on-one nursing. They don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>There are many people who can&#8217;t intepret FHTs properly.  We do know what normal fetal heart tones look like during labor&#8211;when it comes to &#8220;abnormal&#8221; tones, though, there is a high false positive rate (normal babies with abnormal tracings). But catastrophically bad tones almost always bring about catastrophically bad outcomes unless an intervention is performed.</p>
<p>As for moving patients from a labor room to an OR&#8211;in most hospitals, the obstetric OR is part of the labor area, so this takes moments.  No matter how close you may live, you can&#8217;t get from home to an operating room as quickly. If you were to experience massive intrapartum bleeding, as with a placental abruption, this could be the difference between life and death.</p>
<p>Anyways, for <b>location</b> of births, the US is not an outlier in the western world.  The Netherlands, which strongly promotes home birth, has about a 30% rate.  The next highest rate is in the UK, which has a home birth rate of about 2%.  The rest of the West, us included, is in the less than 1% category.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: aimai</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/10/18/no-room-at-the-maternity-ward/comment-page-1/#comment-331614</link>
		<dc:creator>aimai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2203#comment-331614</guid>
		<description>I waned to add that a close personal friend in England whose children have, variously: cleft palate, autism, asthma etc...can&#039;t believe how hard it is for me to get good, consistent, health care for my ashtmatic child in this country. The NHS has done splendidly by her and she knows that every time her children need something no one is trying to figure out how to cut them off the insurance rolls.  Whatever problems she has with the NHS as an adult (she works in the field of grants to cancer care workers) she has none with the care of children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I waned to add that a close personal friend in England whose children have, variously: cleft palate, autism, asthma etc&#8230;can&#8217;t believe how hard it is for me to get good, consistent, health care for my ashtmatic child in this country. The NHS has done splendidly by her and she knows that every time her children need something no one is trying to figure out how to cut them off the insurance rolls.  Whatever problems she has with the NHS as an adult (she works in the field of grants to cancer care workers) she has none with the care of children.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: A Canadian Reader</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2007/10/18/no-room-at-the-maternity-ward/comment-page-1/#comment-331572</link>
		<dc:creator>A Canadian Reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2203#comment-331572</guid>
		<description>This topic drives me crazy!

You can&#039;t discuss universal health care with right-wing zombies. They love eye-catching headlines (like this story) but can&#039;t see beyond them to--for instance--the millions of women who every year throughout the civilized world (Canada, the U.K., France, Germany, etc., etc.) deliver safely and without having to mortgage their homes or go without proper pre-natal care.

Here in Canada, we do indeed often have long waits in the E.R., there are people who can&#039;t find a G.P. and there can be long waits for elective surgery. BUT, if you think I would give up my universal health care to move to the States, I&#039;ve got a bridge in Brooklyn that I&#039;d be happy to sell you. In other words: NOT.

I could personally regale you over a nice meal and a good glass of wine with my good and bad experiences in the Canadian health care system, but once again, I would never, ever consider moving to the States and give up what is essentially an excellent system. 

I would consider moving to France for a number of reasons (and that fact that they have great health care would be one of them). But the States, jamais de la vie! (never).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This topic drives me crazy!</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t discuss universal health care with right-wing zombies. They love eye-catching headlines (like this story) but can&#8217;t see beyond them to&#8211;for instance&#8211;the millions of women who every year throughout the civilized world (Canada, the U.K., France, Germany, etc., etc.) deliver safely and without having to mortgage their homes or go without proper pre-natal care.</p>
<p>Here in Canada, we do indeed often have long waits in the E.R., there are people who can&#8217;t find a G.P. and there can be long waits for elective surgery. BUT, if you think I would give up my universal health care to move to the States, I&#8217;ve got a bridge in Brooklyn that I&#8217;d be happy to sell you. In other words: NOT.</p>
<p>I could personally regale you over a nice meal and a good glass of wine with my good and bad experiences in the Canadian health care system, but once again, I would never, ever consider moving to the States and give up what is essentially an excellent system. </p>
<p>I would consider moving to France for a number of reasons (and that fact that they have great health care would be one of them). But the States, jamais de la vie! (never).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
