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	<title>Comments on: Destroying Feminism</title>
	<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/07/02/destroying-feminism/</link>
	<description>Exposing the ugly truths about the Bush Administration.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 01:43:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: maha</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/07/02/destroying-feminism/#comment-543514</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 15:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/07/02/destroying-feminism/#comment-543514</guid>
					<description>Avedon -- the biggest reason Hillary Clinton lost the nomination is that her campaign was a disorganized mess. Had her campaign been as well run and as well organized as the Obama campaign, she would have walked off with the nomination, easily, sexism or no sexism, Iraq vote or no Iraq vote. It was hers to lose going in, and she lost it.

If anything, the sexism in media -- very real, very nasty -- was her biggest asset -- it pissed off enough women into going to the polls and voting for her. It's why she won New Hampshire, for example. 

Certainly plenty of people refused to vote for her because she is a woman, although I suspect more people are going to refuse to vote for Obama because he is black. But those people wouldn't have voted for her whether there was sexism in media or not. It's possible the sexism in media gained her more votes than cost her votes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Avedon &#8212; the biggest reason Hillary Clinton lost the nomination is that her campaign was a disorganized mess. Had her campaign been as well run and as well organized as the Obama campaign, she would have walked off with the nomination, easily, sexism or no sexism, Iraq vote or no Iraq vote. It was hers to lose going in, and she lost it.</p>
	<p>If anything, the sexism in media &#8212; very real, very nasty &#8212; was her biggest asset &#8212; it pissed off enough women into going to the polls and voting for her. It&#8217;s why she won New Hampshire, for example. </p>
	<p>Certainly plenty of people refused to vote for her because she is a woman, although I suspect more people are going to refuse to vote for Obama because he is black. But those people wouldn&#8217;t have voted for her whether there was sexism in media or not. It&#8217;s possible the sexism in media gained her more votes than cost her votes.
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		<title>by: Avedon</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/07/02/destroying-feminism/#comment-543506</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 13:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/07/02/destroying-feminism/#comment-543506</guid>
					<description>You know, it's just possible that Clinton's Iraq resolution and Kyle-Lieberman votes and her campaign's missteps hurt her, &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; that the sexism hurt her.  It doesn't have to be one or the other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>You know, it&#8217;s just possible that Clinton&#8217;s Iraq resolution and Kyle-Lieberman votes and her campaign&#8217;s missteps hurt her, <i>and</i> that the sexism hurt her.  It doesn&#8217;t have to be one or the other.
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		<title>by: maha</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/07/02/destroying-feminism/#comment-543331</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 02:25:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/07/02/destroying-feminism/#comment-543331</guid>
					<description>Whenever I read comments like #20, by someone who thinks him/herself unutterably clever and righteous but who has completely missed the point, I get very tired. But I suppose I should address this. 

When an ambitious woman gets trashed for being successful and ambitious I would call it misogyny all the time. The fact remains that the really ugly sexism aimed at Clinton wasn't why she lost the nomination. If anything, the sympathy vote was her biggest asset. And it would be really great if people could just address the sexism issue without wrapping themselves in the gloriously self-indulgent mantle of victimhood. Thanks much.

Read the above three times, child. Try to take it in before commenting here again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Whenever I read comments like #20, by someone who thinks him/herself unutterably clever and righteous but who has completely missed the point, I get very tired. But I suppose I should address this. </p>
	<p>When an ambitious woman gets trashed for being successful and ambitious I would call it misogyny all the time. The fact remains that the really ugly sexism aimed at Clinton wasn&#8217;t why she lost the nomination. If anything, the sympathy vote was her biggest asset. And it would be really great if people could just address the sexism issue without wrapping themselves in the gloriously self-indulgent mantle of victimhood. Thanks much.</p>
	<p>Read the above three times, child. Try to take it in before commenting here again.
</p>
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		<title>by: Jesurgislac</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/07/02/destroying-feminism/#comment-543326</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/07/02/destroying-feminism/#comment-543326</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;Yes, Hillary Clinton got hit by a lot of really ugly sexism, but it wasn’t why she lost the nomination. If anything, the sympathy vote was her biggest asset. And it would be really great if people could just address the sexism issue without wrapping themselves in the gloriously self-indulgent mantle of victimhood. &lt;/i&gt;

&quot;Yes, normally when an ambitious woman gets trashed for being successful and ambitious I would call it misogyny, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/03/this-time-syndrome&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;but not this time&lt;/a&gt;.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Yes, Hillary Clinton got hit by a lot of really ugly sexism, but it wasn’t why she lost the nomination. If anything, the sympathy vote was her biggest asset. And it would be really great if people could just address the sexism issue without wrapping themselves in the gloriously self-indulgent mantle of victimhood. </i></p>
	<p>&#8220;Yes, normally when an ambitious woman gets trashed for being successful and ambitious I would call it misogyny, <a href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/03/this-time-syndrome" rel="nofollow">but not this time</a>.&#8221;
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		<title>by: felicity</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/07/02/destroying-feminism/#comment-543264</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:24:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/07/02/destroying-feminism/#comment-543264</guid>
					<description>maha, Very interesting comments  but your 'point' - and mine I might add -  is finally &quot;If we begin to define 'sexism' as 'everything negative...we lose&quot;  is right on.  We as women do not ask for special treatment, we ask for equal treatment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>maha, Very interesting comments  but your &#8216;point&#8217; - and mine I might add -  is finally &#8220;If we begin to define &#8217;sexism&#8217; as &#8216;everything negative&#8230;we lose&#8221;  is right on.  We as women do not ask for special treatment, we ask for equal treatment.
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		<title>by: maha</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/07/02/destroying-feminism/#comment-543247</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 13:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/07/02/destroying-feminism/#comment-543247</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;So? If it’s sexist, it’s sexist, no matter what it’s “aimed at.”&lt;/i&gt;

But it's not always sexist. For example, the cracks about Clinton not being a Democrat that Melissa cited as examples of &quot;sexism&quot; had nothing whatsoever to do with her gender. That was strictly aimed at Clinton's own bad behavior.

This proves my point, which is that by making excuses for Clinton's bad behavior, people complaining about sexism are ruining their own case. Yes, there was sexism, but let's be clear what is sexism and what isn't. If we begin to define &quot;sexism&quot; as &quot;everything negative said about a woman candidate&quot; then we lose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>So? If it’s sexist, it’s sexist, no matter what it’s “aimed at.”</i></p>
	<p>But it&#8217;s not always sexist. For example, the cracks about Clinton not being a Democrat that Melissa cited as examples of &#8220;sexism&#8221; had nothing whatsoever to do with her gender. That was strictly aimed at Clinton&#8217;s own bad behavior.</p>
	<p>This proves my point, which is that by making excuses for Clinton&#8217;s bad behavior, people complaining about sexism are ruining their own case. Yes, there was sexism, but let&#8217;s be clear what is sexism and what isn&#8217;t. If we begin to define &#8220;sexism&#8221; as &#8220;everything negative said about a woman candidate&#8221; then we lose.
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		<title>by: maha</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/07/02/destroying-feminism/#comment-543246</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 13:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/07/02/destroying-feminism/#comment-543246</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;I think you made it quite clear what you expected:

&quot;…acknowledgment that Clinton was behaving very badly as the Endless Primary rolled on, and her behavior was putting the Democratic Party’s chances at winning the White House at serious risk.&quot; &lt;/i&gt;

It's what I would have liked to have seen, because it is the flat-out truth, and second because it would have been an acknowledgment that something other than *just* sexism was going on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I think you made it quite clear what you expected:</p>
	<p>&#8220;…acknowledgment that Clinton was behaving very badly as the Endless Primary rolled on, and her behavior was putting the Democratic Party’s chances at winning the White House at serious risk.&#8221; </i></p>
	<p>It&#8217;s what I would have liked to have seen, because it is the flat-out truth, and second because it would have been an acknowledgment that something other than *just* sexism was going on.
</p>
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		<title>by: maha</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/07/02/destroying-feminism/#comment-543244</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 13:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/07/02/destroying-feminism/#comment-543244</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;No, Barb, that sense of entitlement started right after Iowa and grew exponentially nastier with every leg of the primary. Once it was clear that Obama could win one state without having to rely on the black vote, it meant the nomination was his, and Hillary really had no right to be there.&lt;/i&gt;

That's an odd perception that I don't think reflects objective reality. And, frankly, the only &quot;sense of entitlement&quot; I perceived was coming from the Clintons. 

The fact is that the race, mathematically speaking, was over by early March. From that point on Clinton's only real hope was with the superdelegates, because there was no way she could have surpassed Obama *honestly* with elected delegates. 

But Hillary Clinton was allowed to continue her very dirty and destructive campaign, tearing down Obama and generally being divisive, only because she was Hillary Clinton. Had any other candidate behaved the same way, the Dem Party would have put a halt to it a lot sooner. 

Certainly the media distorted what was happening, but they distorted it both ways, both for and against Clinton and Obama. Particularly in the last few weeks one could not turn on the television here without seeing some pundit talk about Obama's &quot;elitism&quot; or his problem with small-town working-class voters. That was a meme the Clintons established.

There was much sexism, and much bad behavior on many sides, but Clinton was no innocent victim in this. You play dirty, you get dirty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>No, Barb, that sense of entitlement started right after Iowa and grew exponentially nastier with every leg of the primary. Once it was clear that Obama could win one state without having to rely on the black vote, it meant the nomination was his, and Hillary really had no right to be there.</i></p>
	<p>That&#8217;s an odd perception that I don&#8217;t think reflects objective reality. And, frankly, the only &#8220;sense of entitlement&#8221; I perceived was coming from the Clintons. </p>
	<p>The fact is that the race, mathematically speaking, was over by early March. From that point on Clinton&#8217;s only real hope was with the superdelegates, because there was no way she could have surpassed Obama *honestly* with elected delegates. </p>
	<p>But Hillary Clinton was allowed to continue her very dirty and destructive campaign, tearing down Obama and generally being divisive, only because she was Hillary Clinton. Had any other candidate behaved the same way, the Dem Party would have put a halt to it a lot sooner. </p>
	<p>Certainly the media distorted what was happening, but they distorted it both ways, both for and against Clinton and Obama. Particularly in the last few weeks one could not turn on the television here without seeing some pundit talk about Obama&#8217;s &#8220;elitism&#8221; or his problem with small-town working-class voters. That was a meme the Clintons established.</p>
	<p>There was much sexism, and much bad behavior on many sides, but Clinton was no innocent victim in this. You play dirty, you get dirty.
</p>
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		<title>by: TGK</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/07/02/destroying-feminism/#comment-543240</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 13:40:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/07/02/destroying-feminism/#comment-543240</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;what struck me the most was the complete lack of acknowledgment that Clinton was behaving very badly&lt;/i&gt;

But that's not what the article was about; it was about a different topic.  The fact that it didn't address a topic that you wanted is immaterial to its claims -- unless you wish to argue that &quot;fair and balanced&quot; is actually a virtue.

&lt;i&gt;Much — not all, but much — of the “sexist” commentary McEwan took out of context was aimed at Clinton’s behavior, not her gender.&lt;/i&gt;

So?  If it's sexist, it's sexist, no matter what it's &quot;aimed at.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>what struck me the most was the complete lack of acknowledgment that Clinton was behaving very badly</i></p>
	<p>But that&#8217;s not what the article was about; it was about a different topic.  The fact that it didn&#8217;t address a topic that you wanted is immaterial to its claims &#8212; unless you wish to argue that &#8220;fair and balanced&#8221; is actually a virtue.</p>
	<p><i>Much — not all, but much — of the “sexist” commentary McEwan took out of context was aimed at Clinton’s behavior, not her gender.</i></p>
	<p>So?  If it&#8217;s sexist, it&#8217;s sexist, no matter what it&#8217;s &#8220;aimed at.&#8221;
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		<title>by: wmr</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/07/02/destroying-feminism/#comment-543239</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 13:29:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/07/02/destroying-feminism/#comment-543239</guid>
					<description>I think you made it quite clear what you expected:

&lt;i&gt;...acknowledgment that Clinton was behaving very badly as the Endless Primary rolled on, and her behavior was putting the Democratic Party’s chances at winning the White House at serious risk.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think you made it quite clear what you expected:</p>
	<p><i>&#8230;acknowledgment that Clinton was behaving very badly as the Endless Primary rolled on, and her behavior was putting the Democratic Party’s chances at winning the White House at serious risk.</i>
</p>
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