Comments on: McCain’s God Gap http://www.mahablog.com/2008/08/17/mccains-god-gap/ Making the World Safe for Liberalism Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:05:48 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: tech98 http://www.mahablog.com/2008/08/17/mccains-god-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-546331 tech98 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:30:45 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2680#comment-546331 <i>Seems to me that most evangelicals I know believe that grace comes from firm belief, so #4 implies that they can live their lives as total shits and still go to heaven;</i> Hence its appeal to people who seek a religion that demands nothing from them except conformity. They belong to the tribe, therefore by definition they are morally superior and everything they do is righteous. <i>6) The Bible is accurate in all that it teaches (biblical ‘literalism’). 7) God is an all-knowing, all-powerful, perfect deity who created the universe and still rules it today. </i> You left out: (8) An obsession with the gentials of others (9) A love of judgementalism, parochialism and punishment (10) Support for war, torture and jingoism ("Jesus is an American Republican") Seems to me that most evangelicals I know believe that grace comes from firm belief, so #4 implies that they can live their lives as total shits and still go to heaven;

Hence its appeal to people who seek a religion that demands nothing from them except conformity. They belong to the tribe, therefore by definition they are morally superior and everything they do is righteous.

6) The Bible is accurate in all that it teaches (biblical ‘literalism’).

7) God is an all-knowing, all-powerful, perfect deity who created the universe and still rules it today.

You left out:
(8) An obsession with the gentials of others

(9) A love of judgementalism, parochialism and punishment

(10) Support for war, torture and jingoism (“Jesus is an American Republican”)

]]> By: Mike the Mad Biologist http://www.mahablog.com/2008/08/17/mccains-god-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-546325 Mike the Mad Biologist Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:57:46 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2680#comment-546325 Dave (#17), I agree with you; being Jewish, the idea that one is saved by grace and work is not what we do (then again, the notion that one is concerned with salvation also is odd). I don't care much for the ecclesiastical get-out-of-jail-free card either. But those are Barna's criteria. Dave (#17),

I agree with you; being Jewish, the idea that one is saved by grace and work is not what we do (then again, the notion that one is concerned with salvation also is odd). I don’t care much for the ecclesiastical get-out-of-jail-free card either. But those are Barna’s criteria.

]]> By: PurpleGirl http://www.mahablog.com/2008/08/17/mccains-god-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-546320 PurpleGirl Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:31:00 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2680#comment-546320 I think the campaign sent McCain to Sturgis because of a loose idea that bikers have an affection for and relationship to POWs and MIAs dating back to the Vietnam war and they would welcome him with open arms. There are probably many veterans in the biker ranks. I don't believe though that he talked about veterans' issues at Sturgis. He and the campaign might not have realized just what Sturgis is -- a weeklong (?) party which gets rowdy quite fast. (I'm not giving McCain a pass here; it was up to the campaign to research the people who go to Sturgis and what happens there. And I know there are all kinds of bikers.) I also think Saturday's event (which I didn't watch) was over the line in mixing church and state. I'm not pleased that Obama took part in it. I think the campaign sent McCain to Sturgis because of a loose idea that bikers have an affection for and relationship to POWs and MIAs dating back to the Vietnam war and they would welcome him with open arms. There are probably many veterans in the biker ranks. I don’t believe though that he talked about veterans’ issues at Sturgis. He and the campaign might not have realized just what Sturgis is — a weeklong (?) party which gets rowdy quite fast. (I’m not giving McCain a pass here; it was up to the campaign to research the people who go to Sturgis and what happens there. And I know there are all kinds of bikers.)

I also think Saturday’s event (which I didn’t watch) was over the line in mixing church and state. I’m not pleased that Obama took part in it.

]]> By: joanr16 http://www.mahablog.com/2008/08/17/mccains-god-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-546316 joanr16 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 17:21:29 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2680#comment-546316 Swami, I agree with you completely. And, uh, thanks for those mental images. Apparently Sturgis is worse than I ever imagined. Since I'm not a Christian, I don't know, either, how to define one. I only know what my Christian friends and relations consider to be wrong. Also what I, having what I like to think is essential decency and self-respect, consider not just wrong but outrageous. If I take a step back, I see the real outrage as the two presidential contenders having to suck up to religionists, in violation of Article VI of the Constitution. Swami, I agree with you completely. And, uh, thanks for those mental images. Apparently Sturgis is worse than I ever imagined.

Since I’m not a Christian, I don’t know, either, how to define one. I only know what my Christian friends and relations consider to be wrong. Also what I, having what I like to think is essential decency and self-respect, consider not just wrong but outrageous.

If I take a step back, I see the real outrage as the two presidential contenders having to suck up to religionists, in violation of Article VI of the Constitution.

]]> By: Dave http://www.mahablog.com/2008/08/17/mccains-god-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-546315 Dave Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:26:32 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2680#comment-546315 Mike the Mad, "4) Eternal salvation is possible only through grace, not works" always gets my panties in a bunch. Seems to me that most evangelicals I know believe that grace comes from firm belief, so #4 implies that they can live their lives as total shits and still go to heaven; God only cares that you think higly of him. That strikes me as too easy. Mike the Mad, “4) Eternal salvation is possible only through grace, not works” always gets my panties in a bunch. Seems to me that most evangelicals I know believe that grace comes from firm belief, so #4 implies that they can live their lives as total shits and still go to heaven; God only cares that you think higly of him. That strikes me as too easy.

]]> By: Swami http://www.mahablog.com/2008/08/17/mccains-god-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-546309 Swami Mon, 18 Aug 2008 03:38:58 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2680#comment-546309 Joanr16, It isn't just Christians..any man with a modicum of decency and self respect wouldn't hold his wife up to the crowd like a cheap piece of meat to be drooled over by a bunch of horny bikers. McCain seems to have some problems respecting his wife's virtue, at least according to some of the choice names he's publicly bestowed upon her. Whether or not McCain is in good standing with Christ we don't know, but from all outward appearances his words and his behavours certainly don't edify the body of Christ. The question to ask is: Would you invite Jesus to come along with you to view the Miss Buffalo Chip contest? Or the pickle sucking event? I'm sure Jesus would get a big kick out of the fake orgasm competition.. a wholesome family activity. Joanr16, It isn’t just Christians..any man with a modicum of decency and self respect wouldn’t hold his wife up to the crowd like a cheap piece of meat to be drooled over by a bunch of horny bikers. McCain seems to have some problems respecting his wife’s virtue, at least according to some of the choice names he’s publicly bestowed upon her. Whether or not McCain is in good standing with Christ we don’t know, but from all outward appearances his words and his behavours certainly don’t edify the body of Christ.

The question to ask is: Would you invite Jesus to come along with you to view the Miss Buffalo Chip contest? Or the pickle sucking event? I’m sure Jesus would get a big kick out of the fake orgasm competition.. a wholesome family activity.

]]> By: Doug Hughes http://www.mahablog.com/2008/08/17/mccains-god-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-546308 Doug Hughes Mon, 18 Aug 2008 01:40:26 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2680#comment-546308 I watched the whole discussion. It was interesting to see the 2 candidates field exactly the same questions w/out knowing how the other had responded.My impressions: Pastor Warren was evenhanded in the questions he selected & the delivery of those questions This was not Obama's crowd & he knew it going in, but he's not going to cede the field of spiritual voters to the Republicans. Obama got more than polite applause when he quoted scripture to support his political philosophy. "Whatever you do for the least of mt brothers & sisters, you do for ME." He was honest about who is 'rich', about taxes, about sacrifice. McCain was less spiritual more wooden . 'Drill here ; drill now" He would not define 'rich', recited the standard axiom, 'lower taxes, lower taxes'. McCain looks like he is mentally stuck in a POW experience; he brought up at least 2 POW stories. He pushed a very hawkish stance on Iraq; Gen Patreus is, getting OBL. It played well to the crowd there, but did it play nationally? I watched the whole discussion. It was interesting to see the 2 candidates field exactly the same questions w/out knowing how the other had responded.My impressions: Pastor Warren was evenhanded in the questions he selected & the delivery of those questions

This was not Obama’s crowd & he knew it going in, but he’s not going to cede the field of spiritual voters to the Republicans. Obama got more than polite applause when he quoted scripture to support his political philosophy. “Whatever you do for the least of mt brothers & sisters, you do for ME.” He was honest about who is ‘rich’, about taxes, about sacrifice.

McCain was less spiritual more wooden . ‘Drill here ; drill now” He would not define ‘rich’, recited the standard axiom, ‘lower taxes, lower taxes’. McCain looks like he is mentally stuck in a POW experience; he brought up at least 2 POW stories. He pushed a very hawkish stance on Iraq; Gen Patreus is, getting OBL. It played well to the crowd there, but did it play nationally?

]]> By: Mike the Mad Biologist http://www.mahablog.com/2008/08/17/mccains-god-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-546307 Mike the Mad Biologist Mon, 18 Aug 2008 01:37:34 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2680#comment-546307 According to Christine Wicker (<i>The Fall of the Evangelical Nation</i>), Barna defines a born-again as someone who believes: 1) They will go to heaven because they have confessed their sins and accepted Jesus as their savior. 2) They have made a personal commitment to Jesus that is still important to them. Evangelicals also believe the following: 1) Their commitment to Jesus in very important in their life today. 2) They have a personal responsibility to share their religious beliefs about Christ with non-Christians. 3) Satan exists. 4) Eternal salvation is possible only through grace, not works. 5) Jesus lived a sinless life on earth. 6) The Bible is accurate in all that it teaches (biblical 'literalism'). 7) God is an all-knowing, all-powerful, perfect deity who created the universe and still rules it today. According to Christine Wicker (The Fall of the Evangelical Nation), Barna defines a born-again as someone who believes:

1) They will go to heaven because they have confessed their sins and accepted Jesus as their savior.

2) They have made a personal commitment to Jesus that is still important to them.

Evangelicals also believe the following:

1) Their commitment to Jesus in very important in their life today.

2) They have a personal responsibility to share their religious beliefs about Christ with non-Christians.

3) Satan exists.

4) Eternal salvation is possible only through grace, not works.

5) Jesus lived a sinless life on earth.

6) The Bible is accurate in all that it teaches (biblical ‘literalism’).

7) God is an all-knowing, all-powerful, perfect deity who created the universe and still rules it today.

]]> By: erinyes http://www.mahablog.com/2008/08/17/mccains-god-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-546306 erinyes Mon, 18 Aug 2008 00:53:20 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2680#comment-546306 Good point, BruceH. The members of the Church of the divine Harley I'm familar with embrace both the flag and Jesus whole heartedly. They are just as likely to be attorneys or auto mechanics. Although I'm a non believer, I'm currently seeking Jesus.... in a bowl of Cheetos. Wish me luck! Good point, BruceH.
The members of the Church of the divine Harley I’m familar with embrace both the flag and Jesus whole heartedly. They are just as likely to be attorneys or auto mechanics.

Although I’m a non believer, I’m currently seeking Jesus….
in a bowl of Cheetos. Wish me luck!

]]> By: joanr16 http://www.mahablog.com/2008/08/17/mccains-god-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-546305 joanr16 Sun, 17 Aug 2008 23:41:18 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2680#comment-546305 In case anyone missed the story about McCain at Sturgis: http://news.ktar.com/index.php?nid=6&sid=924975 In case anyone missed the story about McCain at Sturgis:

http://news.ktar.com/index.php?nid=6&sid=924975

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