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	<title>Comments on: Time and Tides</title>
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	<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/10/23/time-and-tides-3/</link>
	<description>Making the World Safe for Liberalism</description>
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		<title>By: s</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/10/23/time-and-tides-3/comment-page-1/#comment-548867</link>
		<dc:creator>s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2833#comment-548867</guid>
		<description>#13 Joe, you might try telling your Mom Obama was raised by a woman just like her that he adores.  He would not do anything to harm her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#13 Joe, you might try telling your Mom Obama was raised by a woman just like her that he adores.  He would not do anything to harm her.</p>
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		<title>By: Armadillo Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/10/23/time-and-tides-3/comment-page-1/#comment-548861</link>
		<dc:creator>Armadillo Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:55:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2833#comment-548861</guid>
		<description>beautiful post, maha.  I, too, feel this sea-change roiling under us and it feels overdue.  

I am a transplanted Texan in New York City, I was here on 9/11 (I link to your 9/11 post on the anniversary every year because it so closely resembles my experience and is so much better written than anything I could produce) and I have felt besieged in the years since that awful day because my friends and loved ones back home never asked me then or now about my experiences.  They only want to talk AT me about what they think it all means.  Their politics is always like that.  They would rather tell me why I am wrong (and going to hell) than have a conversation wherein we have a rational exchange of ideas and perhaps shift each others conclusions a little bit.

The prospect of an Obama presidency has driven my family truly insane.  My parents aren&#039;t coming to visit me here in New York City because they can&#039;t bear the thought of visiting such an &quot;anti-American&quot; part of America.  My mom told me yesterday - her voice cracking on the edge of tears - that she was scared of what an Obama Administration will do to people like her and my father.  Without saying it, I know she meant &quot;white.&quot;

Such thinking will not change at first, I fear, because it can&#039;t break through the self-imposed filter of Limbaugh/Hannity/FOX hatred &amp; lies.  It will take time and it will never succeed fully, especially as long as a demagogue like Palin is out there whipping up the orcs, but I hope that the rift in my family can be repaired along with the nation.

Thank you once again for your beautiful post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>beautiful post, maha.  I, too, feel this sea-change roiling under us and it feels overdue.  </p>
<p>I am a transplanted Texan in New York City, I was here on 9/11 (I link to your 9/11 post on the anniversary every year because it so closely resembles my experience and is so much better written than anything I could produce) and I have felt besieged in the years since that awful day because my friends and loved ones back home never asked me then or now about my experiences.  They only want to talk AT me about what they think it all means.  Their politics is always like that.  They would rather tell me why I am wrong (and going to hell) than have a conversation wherein we have a rational exchange of ideas and perhaps shift each others conclusions a little bit.</p>
<p>The prospect of an Obama presidency has driven my family truly insane.  My parents aren&#8217;t coming to visit me here in New York City because they can&#8217;t bear the thought of visiting such an &#8220;anti-American&#8221; part of America.  My mom told me yesterday &#8211; her voice cracking on the edge of tears &#8211; that she was scared of what an Obama Administration will do to people like her and my father.  Without saying it, I know she meant &#8220;white.&#8221;</p>
<p>Such thinking will not change at first, I fear, because it can&#8217;t break through the self-imposed filter of Limbaugh/Hannity/FOX hatred &amp; lies.  It will take time and it will never succeed fully, especially as long as a demagogue like Palin is out there whipping up the orcs, but I hope that the rift in my family can be repaired along with the nation.</p>
<p>Thank you once again for your beautiful post.</p>
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		<title>By: James E. Powell</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/10/23/time-and-tides-3/comment-page-1/#comment-548826</link>
		<dc:creator>James E. Powell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 02:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2833#comment-548826</guid>
		<description>The political wave has been moving strongly toward Democrats and a vague and unfocused progressivism since 1996.  The Clinton impeachment was enough to stall Gore&#039;s election in 2000.  I strongly believe no Monica, no War on Gore, no Bush.

9/11 gave Bush and the Republicans a wave of support they could never have earned in any other way.  It also cowed Democrats up to and including the 2004 election.

This year is, then, a course correction.  We are back where we were headed before Monica and back to where we would have been moving before 9/11.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The political wave has been moving strongly toward Democrats and a vague and unfocused progressivism since 1996.  The Clinton impeachment was enough to stall Gore&#8217;s election in 2000.  I strongly believe no Monica, no War on Gore, no Bush.</p>
<p>9/11 gave Bush and the Republicans a wave of support they could never have earned in any other way.  It also cowed Democrats up to and including the 2004 election.</p>
<p>This year is, then, a course correction.  We are back where we were headed before Monica and back to where we would have been moving before 9/11.</p>
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		<title>By: Swami</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/10/23/time-and-tides-3/comment-page-1/#comment-548824</link>
		<dc:creator>Swami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 01:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2833#comment-548824</guid>
		<description>I think that the invasion of Iraq, and the issue of state sanctioned torture played a big part in bringing America to where she is today. I know that on a personal level those two issues have separated me from America. I can&#039;t reconcile those two issues with my beliefs and values of what an American is, or what an American should find acceptable. Bush assaulted my values and destroyed my love for America in the process. Belligerence and torture aren&#039;t consistent with my love for country.

Obama says...&quot;Let&#039;s return to our best traditions&quot;.  I can dig that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the invasion of Iraq, and the issue of state sanctioned torture played a big part in bringing America to where she is today. I know that on a personal level those two issues have separated me from America. I can&#8217;t reconcile those two issues with my beliefs and values of what an American is, or what an American should find acceptable. Bush assaulted my values and destroyed my love for America in the process. Belligerence and torture aren&#8217;t consistent with my love for country.</p>
<p>Obama says&#8230;&#8221;Let&#8217;s return to our best traditions&#8221;.  I can dig that!</p>
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		<title>By: erinyes</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/10/23/time-and-tides-3/comment-page-1/#comment-548808</link>
		<dc:creator>erinyes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:53:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2833#comment-548808</guid>
		<description>As to your opening question, headed towards a waterfall pretty much nails it., or perhaps jumping out of an airplane with a parachute packed in China?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As to your opening question, headed towards a waterfall pretty much nails it., or perhaps jumping out of an airplane with a parachute packed in China?</p>
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		<title>By: erinyes</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/10/23/time-and-tides-3/comment-page-1/#comment-548807</link>
		<dc:creator>erinyes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2833#comment-548807</guid>
		<description>Maha, as for the meaning of dukkha, perhaps &quot;challange&quot; fits the definition a bit better.I view life as a river rafting trip, sometimes its calm and lazy, sometimes fast and furious, but you can&#039;t appreciate either without the other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maha, as for the meaning of dukkha, perhaps &#8220;challange&#8221; fits the definition a bit better.I view life as a river rafting trip, sometimes its calm and lazy, sometimes fast and furious, but you can&#8217;t appreciate either without the other.</p>
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		<title>By: erinyes</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/10/23/time-and-tides-3/comment-page-1/#comment-548806</link>
		<dc:creator>erinyes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2833#comment-548806</guid>
		<description>The straight talk express was headed west as I was going east on I-4 today. It was preceeded by what seemed to be a mile of motorcycle cops. When I steped out of my truck to gas up, a rather unkept looking 40 something guy shouts out &quot;did you see McCain passing on the highway?&quot; I replied yes, and isn&#039;t it a shame that our politicians need an army to protect them when they go out?
He then said he&#039;s voting for McCain because he&#039;ll keep spending down, and that Palin would nuke Afghanistan if her son is harmed fighting there.McCain /Palin for him because Glen Beck likes them.. He was picking up his wife who works at Arby&#039;s, and his car looked like it is on its last legs.
I don&#039;t understand how they can keep voting against their best interests time after time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The straight talk express was headed west as I was going east on I-4 today. It was preceeded by what seemed to be a mile of motorcycle cops. When I steped out of my truck to gas up, a rather unkept looking 40 something guy shouts out &#8220;did you see McCain passing on the highway?&#8221; I replied yes, and isn&#8217;t it a shame that our politicians need an army to protect them when they go out?<br />
He then said he&#8217;s voting for McCain because he&#8217;ll keep spending down, and that Palin would nuke Afghanistan if her son is harmed fighting there.McCain /Palin for him because Glen Beck likes them.. He was picking up his wife who works at Arby&#8217;s, and his car looked like it is on its last legs.<br />
I don&#8217;t understand how they can keep voting against their best interests time after time.</p>
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		<title>By: BJohnM</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/10/23/time-and-tides-3/comment-page-1/#comment-548805</link>
		<dc:creator>BJohnM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2833#comment-548805</guid>
		<description>Two points come to mind here. 

First, I wrote a post a while back wondering if one day Karl Rove wasn&#039;t in some hotel bar with another political operative, and cocky Karl said, I&#039;ll bet you $1.00 that I can get the most stupid man in America elected President (ala &quot;Trading Places&quot;). I&#039;d say he won the bet.

Now on to my more direct thoughts on your post. Over a year ago I read an on-line article (which to this day I could find again). I don&#039;t even remember who wrote it, but the author talked about how we are going through (the whole world) one of the major cyclical changes that the world goes through every so often.

He talked about how it scares people (generally afraid of change as it is) to see such dramatic changes, and so groups of the population want to pull back from the precipice and return to idealized version of a past time. Like now, with the evangelicals in America wanting to return to back alley abortions and gay people back in their closets, and blacks in their neighborhoods and whites in the suburbs.

The author remarked that it has, througout history, resulted in very dark times during the transition, but it was always better once we got on the other side. He seemed to think that this generation would not see us get to the new order, and maybe we won&#039;t, but I think the technologies driving the new communications methods and such may be accelerating the process more than in the past.

As everyone above agrees, keep hope alive, but realize that groups of the population will resist the change, sometimes to the point of violence...and their desperation will only grow over time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two points come to mind here. </p>
<p>First, I wrote a post a while back wondering if one day Karl Rove wasn&#8217;t in some hotel bar with another political operative, and cocky Karl said, I&#8217;ll bet you $1.00 that I can get the most stupid man in America elected President (ala &#8220;Trading Places&#8221;). I&#8217;d say he won the bet.</p>
<p>Now on to my more direct thoughts on your post. Over a year ago I read an on-line article (which to this day I could find again). I don&#8217;t even remember who wrote it, but the author talked about how we are going through (the whole world) one of the major cyclical changes that the world goes through every so often.</p>
<p>He talked about how it scares people (generally afraid of change as it is) to see such dramatic changes, and so groups of the population want to pull back from the precipice and return to idealized version of a past time. Like now, with the evangelicals in America wanting to return to back alley abortions and gay people back in their closets, and blacks in their neighborhoods and whites in the suburbs.</p>
<p>The author remarked that it has, througout history, resulted in very dark times during the transition, but it was always better once we got on the other side. He seemed to think that this generation would not see us get to the new order, and maybe we won&#8217;t, but I think the technologies driving the new communications methods and such may be accelerating the process more than in the past.</p>
<p>As everyone above agrees, keep hope alive, but realize that groups of the population will resist the change, sometimes to the point of violence&#8230;and their desperation will only grow over time.</p>
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		<title>By: uncledad</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/10/23/time-and-tides-3/comment-page-1/#comment-548804</link>
		<dc:creator>uncledad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:38:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2833#comment-548804</guid>
		<description>Dave,

It was &quot;tweety&quot;. I found that statistic facinating as well.

Has MSNBC become the liberals FAUX news?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave,</p>
<p>It was &#8220;tweety&#8221;. I found that statistic facinating as well.</p>
<p>Has MSNBC become the liberals FAUX news?</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.mahablog.com/2008/10/23/time-and-tides-3/comment-page-1/#comment-548803</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mahablog.com/?p=2833#comment-548803</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m watching too much MSNBC recently - need to keep my spirits up and my hope alive, after all - so I&#039;m not sure whether it was Tweety or Olberman who gave this stat...

Whomever it was said that you have to go back to 1928 to find a winning GOP ticket that did not include a Nixon or a Bush on the ticket. I believe he meant it as a comment on the POTENTIAL failure of the McCain campaign. I took it as a sign of hope for the future ... assuming we can keep Jeb out of the ring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m watching too much MSNBC recently &#8211; need to keep my spirits up and my hope alive, after all &#8211; so I&#8217;m not sure whether it was Tweety or Olberman who gave this stat&#8230;</p>
<p>Whomever it was said that you have to go back to 1928 to find a winning GOP ticket that did not include a Nixon or a Bush on the ticket. I believe he meant it as a comment on the POTENTIAL failure of the McCain campaign. I took it as a sign of hope for the future &#8230; assuming we can keep Jeb out of the ring.</p>
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