22 Comments

1. AnnPW  •  Dec 21, 2008 @4:16 pm
   

   I don’t know BTD that well, but could his comment be a sarcastic jibe at those who are upset by the Rick Warren invitation?

2. maha  •  Dec 21, 2008 @4:22 pm
   

   I took it as a sarcastic jibe at those who are not upset by the Rick Warren invitation.

3. Bonnie  •  Dec 21, 2008 @4:53 pm
   

   I stopped reading TalkLeft after about the second day of the Warren controversy because they were carrying on about it so much. So, I think Maha is correct about BTD. Unions have been so villified by the Bush admin. and Repugs that it was nice to see a company picked for some quality reasons–not just to bust unions.

4. Sammy  •  Dec 21, 2008 @5:12 pm
   

   Barbara – I think you’re probably right about the jab. But the irony is that instead of making people who aren’t exercised about Warren’s pick look foolish, it makes BTD look a little ridiculous. And I say that as someone who is unhappy about Warren.

5. maha  •  Dec 21, 2008 @5:21 pm
   

   Sammy — Right; he seems to be saying that we must diss Unions because we don’t like Rick Warren. Weird.

6. Lynne  •  Dec 21, 2008 @5:27 pm
   

   The whole Talk Left discussion reads like a series of non sequiturs, to me.

7. melbradley  •  Dec 21, 2008 @7:20 pm
   

   It seems as if most of these gripers have forgotten that Barack Obama is a politician. It’s like they put all their hopes in him and got disappointed when he didn’t live up to their dreamland of what he should do. They need to grow up and realise that you can get what you want and still not be happy. Barack Obama is not going to be perfect, just better than the current bunch of bums. Hell, sometimes I think Nixon was better than Bush.

8. Doug Hughes  •  Dec 21, 2008 @7:29 pm
   

   To me, this seems illustrative of how Obama will conduct business. This job under the Bush administration might have been awarded without bidding to the best-connected contractor.

   Under Obama the bidding was open to all, but factors like unionzation & social responsibility were considered. People upset about Warrren miss the point. Everyone is welcome to the party, but when decisions have to be made, a yardstick which includes liberal values will be used for measuring.

   So when it comes time, Obama will listen to Pastor Rick, but when the day is done, a SC Justice will be selected who is inclined to support Roe v Wade. Pastor Rick will say he made his case – Obama will say he listened attentively to a man he respects – and at the end of the day – liberal decisions (generally) will be made.

   The lefties who are ‘inclusive’ of everyone whe thinks like they do are NOT inclusive. Once upon a time, political discourse WAS expressed respectfully by people like Tip O’Neil and Wm F. Buckley. The worst aspects of our political scene are articulated by Rush AND his counterparts on the LEFT. We have a president who has figured out how toxic this is.. When will the troops get the message?

9. biggerbox  •  Dec 21, 2008 @8:11 pm
   

   I can’t get too upset about that post of BTD’s, primarily because it’s so badly written I can’t figure out what the heck its meaning is.

   Was BTD slamming Obama for not applying a decision process to picking printers similar to the one he used for Rick Warren? So, um, yeah? He used a good one for the printer and a bad one for Warren. That’s what we’ve been going on about. So?

   Or is BTD actually, and non-ironically, suggesting that another printer should have been chosen?

   Or is BTD just … sorry, my alloted budget of time to waste on pointlessness has run out. Moving on…

10. Grendel72  •  Dec 21, 2008 @8:29 pm
    

    The lefties who are ‘inclusive’ of everyone who thinks like they do are NOT inclusive.
    So you agree then that the printing job should have gone to union busting polluters?
    The point is that “inclusiveness” of rightwing assholes is not inclusiveness at all.

11. maha  •  Dec 21, 2008 @8:38 pm
    

    Grendel72 — You must be new here, or you would know to speak more respectfully to my regulars. If you cannot argue with people honestly, you will be banned.

    No one here (do learn to read) thinks the job should have gone to union busting polluters. The point is that BTD is a sick bastard who hasn’t reconciled with the fact that Barack Obama beat Hillary Clinton fair and square in the primaries and then went on to win the election, contrary to BTD’s predictions, and he can’t stand it. No pitiful excuse to bash Obama gets by ol’ BTD.

    I don’t like Rick Warren either, but having him give the invocation is not busting unions (see my earlier post). The two are not comparable.

12. Doug Hughes  •  Dec 21, 2008 @8:49 pm
    

    Grendel – In Iran, the Shai majority was oppressed by the Suni minority under Sadaam.. The new majority in power (including police) conducted a purge which included wholesale murder of Sunis. This is not (in my book) democracy in action. The same thing (without the blood) applies to our change of power. It’s not ‘get-even’ time, even though we liberals were treated badly by Bush.

    I am NOT suggesting we compromise on principle, though I expect at times I will be fiercely opposed to compromises that will be made. But I do not endorse or support (more importantly, neither does Obama) persecuting the political opposition. You mark of a fair measure in the decision-making process which includes liberal values and let the conservatives bid, too. And let the chips fall where they may.

13. uncledad  •  Dec 21, 2008 @9:22 pm
    

    Sarcastic? Shouldn’t sarcasm also contain some irony? What do I know I’m just an engineer. Anyway I sent the following to the Obama campaign last night (they are still sending me emails for money?):

    I am very disappointed in the decision to have that wacked out TV evangelist speak at the inaugural. I feel he is an extremist of the worst kind (a real agent of intolerance) and the fact that the Obama team would want to be associated with him both angers and saddens me. My support is not without limits.

    No reply yet!!!

14. Grendel72  •  Dec 21, 2008 @10:01 pm
    

    Look, BTD was dead wrong in the primary, and continues to make petty, weak arguments against Obama.
    That doesn’t change the fact that the Rick Warren selection is a terrible idea. And the fact that some people who refuse to accept the possibility Obama is capable of making mistakes constantly refer to embracing bigotry as “inclusiveness” is pretty distasteful to people who have friends and families having their marriages stripped away by Rick Warren’s bigotry.
    It’s a longstanding tactic of the right to feign disingenuousness while proclaiming that arguing against intolerance is “the real intolerance”, and it is frankly disgusting to see people on the left adopting that same worthless argument.

15. joanr16  •  Dec 21, 2008 @10:20 pm
    

    The employees, all union members, are working overtime to produce the invitations, using traditional printing processes that require real craftsmanship. They cheered when they heard their company had been awarded the job.

    I think that is very cool.

    A dear friend of mine is a print artist– has a big old linotype press in her detached-garage studio. She also practices a very green lifestyle. I’ll tell her this story; it’ll make for a little added holiday cheer.

16. maha  •  Dec 21, 2008 @10:23 pm
    

    Grendel72 — just because I’m in a good mood, you get one more warning before you are banned.

    Certainly Obama is capable of making mistakes. No one here is saying otherwise. Yes, Warren is disgusting. Yes, Warren takes issues that are morally offensive. We get that.

    There’s a discussion on this same issue on a Buddhist listserv I lurk on, and someone posted this quote –

    “All sentient beings are allowed to live and are, from the beginning, forgiven for living their lives in this world. Everything, whatever it is, has some reason why it exists: evil, good, even something neither evil nor good. You cannot destroy devils just because you don’t like them. Even though you don’t like monsters, still there is some reason why they exist. Everything is entitled to live in the world in peace and harmony beyond our judgment, our evaluation. This is the first condition we have to realize — everything is Buddha.” — Dainin Katagiri Roshi

    I don’t expect you to understand that, but it speaks for me.

17. joanr16  •  Dec 21, 2008 @10:26 pm
    

    Grendel72, the selection of the shop producing the invitations is completely unrelated to the participation of Rick Warren (if it happens; I’m still hoping not, although probably in vain).

    To try to overlap the two is exactly the “feigned disingenuousness” you mention.

18. SM  •  Dec 21, 2008 @10:37 pm
    

    The point is that BTD is a sick bastard who hasn’t reconciled with the fact that Barack Obama beat Hillary Clinton fair and square in the primaries and then went on to win the election, contrary to BTD’s predictions, and he can’t stand it

    Have you even read anything BTD has written during the course of te primary and the general election. If you did, you would know that he supported Obama and predicted he would win the primary and the general election because of his media darling status. No – BTD isn’t sore about not predicting the winner, because he always did.

    This blog is a joke – if you have to malign another blogger, get your facts straight. The fact that you didn’t understand BTD’s post just shows that this blog and its readership are at a reading comprehension level lower than high school.

19. Grendel72  •  Dec 21, 2008 @10:44 pm
    

    The problem is not calling out the childishness of BTD.
    Don’t tell me how “inclusive” it is to suck up to bigotry, and don’t tell me those who are upset with the selection of Warren are “not being inclusive.”

    And fine, go ahead and ban me for disagreeing, that’s the “inclusive” thing to do, apparently.

20. maha  •  Dec 21, 2008 @11:18 pm
    

    Don’t tell me how “inclusive” it is to suck up to bigotry, and don’t tell me those who are upset with the selection of Warren are “not being inclusive.”

    There is good reason to be upset with the selection of Warren. Most of us are upset with the selection of Warren. However, we manage our disappointment like adults, not like bratty children, and keep some perspective on which issues are important and which are ephemeral.

    I’m banning you for being an asshole, btw. Goodbye.

21. maha  •  Dec 21, 2008 @11:23 pm
    

    SM — I’m sorry, but we’re talking about the BTD in this time-space continuum, not whichever one you are living in. The one living in this continuum does claim to have taken the positions you say he took, but he lies, as John Cole documented a few weeks ago.

    You’re banned too, btw.

22. wonkie  •  Dec 23, 2008 @12:40 pm
    

    I’ve never understood BTD. My best shot at understanding him is that he is a person who needs to feel that he is being persecuted for being smarter than everyone else.