Comments on: More Than Fear Itself http://www.mahablog.com/2009/02/10/more-than-fear-itself/ Making the World Safe for Liberalism Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:27:05 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Doug Hughes http://www.mahablog.com/2009/02/10/more-than-fear-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-574601 Doug Hughes Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:32:11 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=3484#comment-574601 I had an interesting conversation at work with a conservative friend about the economic stimulus. I asked him if the thought the New Deal was effective in ending the Depression. His answer was typical " The War is what ended the Depression". Typical conversation, but I did not dispute him. "OK. Think Economics. How did WWII end the depression?" He was puzzled. "What do you mean?" "Ignore the political & military aspects of WWII. What did it change economically?" His answer was honest, which is why I like him, even conservative. "Jobs." My answer: "Exactly. Massive deficit spending in the private sector mostly; the main difference being we were building war goods in 1945, and now we are spending it on bridges, schools, alternate energy." And I challenged him to tell me HOW the Economic Stimulus Bill differs in economic concept from what he believes ended the Great Depression. He's thinking about it, and his position. Most conservatives believe that massive government deficit spending ended the Great Depression. They don't KNOW that's what they believe and it's a fun conversation to show them. I had an interesting conversation at work with a conservative friend about the economic stimulus. I asked him if the thought the New Deal was effective in ending the Depression. His answer was typical ” The War is what ended the Depression”. Typical conversation, but I did not dispute him. “OK. Think Economics. How did WWII end the depression?” He was puzzled. “What do you mean?” “Ignore the political & military aspects of WWII. What did it change economically?” His answer was honest, which is why I like him, even conservative.

“Jobs.” My answer: “Exactly. Massive deficit spending in the private sector mostly; the main difference being we were building war goods in 1945, and now we are spending it on bridges, schools, alternate energy.” And I challenged him to tell me HOW the Economic Stimulus Bill differs in economic concept from what he believes ended the Great Depression. He’s thinking about it, and his position.

Most conservatives believe that massive government deficit spending ended the Great Depression. They don’t KNOW that’s what they believe and it’s a fun conversation to show them.

]]> By: khughes1963 http://www.mahablog.com/2009/02/10/more-than-fear-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-574176 khughes1963 Wed, 11 Feb 2009 01:26:53 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=3484#comment-574176 The GOP backed Bush's disastrous adventure in Iraq, and that has cost us considerably more than the stimulus bill. Apparently they think they should support the defense contractors, military contractors, and business cronies over the needs of the American public. On a side note, I think Geithner was not the best choice for Treasury secretary, given his complicity in the financial mess and his tax problems. The GOP backed Bush’s disastrous adventure in Iraq, and that has cost us considerably more than the stimulus bill. Apparently they think they should support the defense contractors, military contractors, and business cronies over the needs of the American public. On a side note, I think Geithner was not the best choice for Treasury secretary, given his complicity in the financial mess and his tax problems.

]]> By: joanr16 http://www.mahablog.com/2009/02/10/more-than-fear-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-574140 joanr16 Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:50:19 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=3484#comment-574140 <i>There’s an interesting issue playing out with Republicans. Does a Senator work for his/her State, or the USA, or the Republican party?</i> We need to keep hitting on this... how the GOP "elected representatives" keep choosing PARTY FIRST. <i>And I miss [Lulu's]</i> The pen became a clarion <i>marquee.</i> Fixed it for ya, Lulu: "Pen is envy." --Margaret Atwood. <i>The Republicans are praying for the economy to get worse so they can blame it on Obama.</i> Some of them have even admitted this in a roundabout way, with their classic five-year-old's retort to the very suggestion: "Oh, like <i>you</i> weren't praying for bad stuff to happen while Bush was president!" Apparently they have no idea what it feels like, or looks like, to be a person of good will. Finally: no matter how grim the forecast, I'll always be comforted by the fact that Robert Reich is on our side. We've got the brainiacs, they've got the Lulus. There’s an interesting issue playing out with Republicans. Does a Senator work for his/her State, or the USA, or the Republican party?

We need to keep hitting on this… how the GOP “elected representatives” keep choosing PARTY FIRST.

And I miss [Lulu's] The pen became a clarion marquee.

Fixed it for ya, Lulu: “Pen is envy.” –Margaret Atwood.

The Republicans are praying for the economy to get worse so they can blame it on Obama.

Some of them have even admitted this in a roundabout way, with their classic five-year-old’s retort to the very suggestion: “Oh, like you weren’t praying for bad stuff to happen while Bush was president!” Apparently they have no idea what it feels like, or looks like, to be a person of good will.

Finally: no matter how grim the forecast, I’ll always be comforted by the fact that Robert Reich is on our side. We’ve got the brainiacs, they’ve got the Lulus.

]]> By: Doug Hughes http://www.mahablog.com/2009/02/10/more-than-fear-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-574110 Doug Hughes Tue, 10 Feb 2009 22:32:39 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=3484#comment-574110 There's an interesting issue playing out with Republicans. Does a Senator work for his/her State, or the USA, or the Republican party? Republicans are trying to prevent any fractures in a solid front of opposition. The cracks are there; some conservatives think government intervention is justified, and Obama needs those votes. But the GOP is trying to prevent a thinking conservative from voting for what's best for the State they represent or the country at large, when the result might weaken the GOP in 2010. There’s an interesting issue playing out with Republicans. Does a Senator work for his/her State, or the USA, or the Republican party? Republicans are trying to prevent any fractures in a solid front of opposition. The cracks are there; some conservatives think government intervention is justified, and Obama needs those votes. But the GOP is trying to prevent a thinking conservative from voting for what’s best for the State they represent or the country at large, when the result might weaken the GOP in 2010.

]]> By: Tito http://www.mahablog.com/2009/02/10/more-than-fear-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-574106 Tito Tue, 10 Feb 2009 22:16:49 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=3484#comment-574106 Was the problem in Japan really that their government didn't act quickly or decisively enough? (Which I take to mean throwing enough money at the problem.) http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/06/world/asia/06japan.html?_r=1&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink Was the problem in Japan really that their government didn’t act quickly or decisively enough? (Which I take to mean throwing enough money at the problem.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/06/world/asia/06japan.html?_r=1&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

]]> By: Pat Pattillo http://www.mahablog.com/2009/02/10/more-than-fear-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-574081 Pat Pattillo Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:41:47 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=3484#comment-574081 Yes. Obama nailed it. To reinforce all of this, though even easier to grasp pictures would not jerk little Lulus head out of the sand, here is a graph from the Bureau of labor Statistics depicting Job Losses in Recent Recessions. Not the green line which represents the job loss in the recession in which we now find ourselves. As one who has lost his job I submit that we err on the side of caution on this one...take a pass on the advice from economists Romney and Malkin and err on the side of caution. http://www.speaker.gov/img/jobsrecessions.jpg Yes. Obama nailed it.

To reinforce all of this, though even easier to grasp pictures would not jerk little Lulus head out of the sand, here is a graph from the Bureau of labor Statistics depicting Job Losses in Recent Recessions. Not the green line which represents the job loss in the recession in which we now find ourselves.

As one who has lost his job I submit that we err on the side of caution on this one…take a pass on the advice from economists Romney and Malkin and err on the side of caution.

http://www.speaker.gov/img/jobsrecessions.jpg

]]> By: Jon http://www.mahablog.com/2009/02/10/more-than-fear-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-574054 Jon Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:09:51 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=3484#comment-574054 "To the same question, would George W. Bush have managed even one coherent sentence?" You practically read my mind. I was thinking, how refreshing to have a president who can give a detailed, well thought out answer, as if he had actually <i>thought</i> about the issues involved. I've missed that terribly for the last eight years. I haven't read Reich's article yet, but I think he's right on. The Republicans are <i>praying</i> for the economy to get worse so they can blame it on Obama. Just don't think about the fact that we got here following republican policies like lower taxes and de-regulation. I hope the American public is not that stupid in 2010. “To the same question, would George W. Bush have managed even one coherent sentence?”

You practically read my mind. I was thinking, how refreshing to have a president who can give a detailed, well thought out answer, as if he had actually thought about the issues involved. I’ve missed that terribly for the last eight years.

I haven’t read Reich’s article yet, but I think he’s right on. The Republicans are praying for the economy to get worse so they can blame it on Obama. Just don’t think about the fact that we got here following republican policies like lower taxes and de-regulation. I hope the American public is not that stupid in 2010.

]]> By: felicity http://www.mahablog.com/2009/02/10/more-than-fear-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-574053 felicity Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:05:37 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=3484#comment-574053 Remembering that in this 'crisis' 40 percent of the world's wealth has been "destroyed," it's confirmed that Republicans are brain-dead if they think that Obama is 'just playing the fear card.' Actually, they're also brain-dead liars. They 'blame' the long-lasting Depression of the '30's on the New Deal - wrong - to justify their objection to any government 'interference' in today's mess. What they really fear is the rise of unionism out of this mess (union membership increased three-fold during the '30's). Remembering that in this ‘crisis’ 40 percent of the world’s wealth has been “destroyed,” it’s confirmed that Republicans are brain-dead if they think that Obama is ‘just playing the fear card.’

Actually, they’re also brain-dead liars. They ‘blame’ the long-lasting Depression of the ’30’s on the New Deal – wrong – to justify their objection to any government ‘interference’ in today’s mess. What they really fear is the rise of unionism out of this mess (union membership increased three-fold during the ’30’s).

]]> By: Swami http://www.mahablog.com/2009/02/10/more-than-fear-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-574040 Swami Tue, 10 Feb 2009 18:35:36 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=3484#comment-574040 Gee, Lulu seems to be having difficulty making the transition in accepting an Obama presidency. I could be wrong, but labeling Obama as the Savior- in- Chief kinda seems like she's got an attitude and isn't happy with America's choice for our President. And I miss her <i>The pen became a clarion</i> marquee. It was a nice touch for her Defender of Truth mantle. Gee, Lulu seems to be having difficulty making the transition in accepting an Obama presidency. I could be wrong, but labeling Obama as the Savior- in- Chief kinda seems like she’s got an attitude and isn’t happy with America’s choice for our President.

And I miss her The pen became a clarion marquee. It was a nice touch for her Defender of Truth mantle.

]]> By: uncledad http://www.mahablog.com/2009/02/10/more-than-fear-itself/comment-page-1/#comment-574038 uncledad Tue, 10 Feb 2009 18:32:24 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=3484#comment-574038 I think the fear that Obama is instilling is in the hearts and minds of the wing-nuts and righty media bobble heads. Having an articulate and somewhat charming president talking directly to the media and the American public (actually making sense) scares the shit out of them. His clarity of message completely drowns out the wing-nuts "he gonna ruin the country" mantra. If only the house and the senate could put forward some leaders that could argue their cases so persuasively, Harry and Nancy just aint cuttin it! I think the democrats have a real crisis of leadership in the congress. I think the fear that Obama is instilling is in the hearts and minds of the wing-nuts and righty media bobble heads. Having an articulate and somewhat charming president talking directly to the media and the American public (actually making sense) scares the shit out of them. His clarity of message completely drowns out the wing-nuts “he gonna ruin the country” mantra. If only the house and the senate could put forward some leaders that could argue their cases so persuasively, Harry and Nancy just aint cuttin it! I think the democrats have a real crisis of leadership in the congress.

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