Comments on: What Is the Purpose of a Health Care System?, Part II http://www.mahablog.com/2009/05/12/what-is-the-purpose-of-a-health-care-system-part-ii/ Making the World Safe for Liberalism Fri, 19 Mar 2010 13:33:34 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Mr. Smith http://www.mahablog.com/2009/05/12/what-is-the-purpose-of-a-health-care-system-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-619688 Mr. Smith Mon, 18 May 2009 05:47:10 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=5409#comment-619688 I hate my private insurance. These companies are pirates, robbing us blind. It is not reform without a public plan that brings the health insurance companies out of their monopoly. Without a public option the best thing is simply a law that bars underwriting and limits the price gouging. Then make providers accept all plans. Or do that with the public plan too, even better. But we will be lucky if only congress doesn't screw the whole thing up so much that it is all worse than ever. I hate my private insurance. These companies are pirates, robbing us blind. It is not reform without a public plan that brings the health insurance companies out of their monopoly. Without a public option the best thing is simply a law that bars underwriting and limits the price gouging. Then make providers accept all plans. Or do that with the public plan too, even better. But we will be lucky if only congress doesn’t screw the whole thing up so much that it is all worse than ever.

]]> By: Hermetically Sealed http://www.mahablog.com/2009/05/12/what-is-the-purpose-of-a-health-care-system-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-619576 Hermetically Sealed Thu, 14 May 2009 20:53:47 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=5409#comment-619576 "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, <strike>promote the general Welfare</strike>, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

]]> By: Dave S http://www.mahablog.com/2009/05/12/what-is-the-purpose-of-a-health-care-system-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-619532 Dave S Wed, 13 May 2009 23:05:51 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=5409#comment-619532 diedinthewool: <i>to Dave S. I am tired and it is late so maybe I am missing Dave’s point.</i> No, I think you got my point beautifully. But I'm still trying to wrap my head around the implications of single payer (I can be quite thick at times) and your comment made a lot of sense, thank you. diedinthewool: to Dave S. I am tired and it is late so maybe I am missing Dave’s point.

No, I think you got my point beautifully. But I’m still trying to wrap my head around the implications of single payer (I can be quite thick at times) and your comment made a lot of sense, thank you.

]]> By: LongHairedWeirdo http://www.mahablog.com/2009/05/12/what-is-the-purpose-of-a-health-care-system-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-619521 LongHairedWeirdo Wed, 13 May 2009 18:39:30 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=5409#comment-619521 This is going to be an interesting thing, actually. If the government just took anyone who had no other way to get health insurance, insurance companies would dump all their expensive patients (or all that they could) onto the government. If the government mandated coverage for all (i.e., set a price based upon certain fair criteria, cover any and everyone for that price), then the government as competition shouldn't be needed. This is going to be an interesting thing, actually.

If the government just took anyone who had no other way to get health insurance, insurance companies would dump all their expensive patients (or all that they could) onto the government.

If the government mandated coverage for all (i.e., set a price based upon certain fair criteria, cover any and everyone for that price), then the government as competition shouldn’t be needed.

]]> By: joanr16 http://www.mahablog.com/2009/05/12/what-is-the-purpose-of-a-health-care-system-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-619492 joanr16 Wed, 13 May 2009 13:06:03 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=5409#comment-619492 Felicity - in fact, doctors, hospitals, neurosurgeons, anesthesiologists (sp), nurses, etc., all have kept me alive. Of course, someone had to <i>pay them.</i> I suppose without health insurance I <i>might</i> be alive, but I'd definitely be bankrupt. The reason I'm neither is I had health insurance to pay most (in 1999, nearly all) of my medical expenses. All I'm saying is even people without brain tumors or a family history full of cancer and heart disease can't just afford to pay what the market will bear. I agree that health insurers are standing between us and a system that works. I won't miss them when they go, but I'm being realistic-- I couldn't and can't pay out-of-pocket for the medical care that keeps me going. Almost no one can. If we could, we wouldn't be having this discussion. If we all have single-payer care that equates to my 1999 insurance, minus the bean-counting "murder by spreadsheet," life in this country will be much more fair, and healthy. Felicity – in fact, doctors, hospitals, neurosurgeons, anesthesiologists (sp), nurses, etc., all have kept me alive. Of course, someone had to pay them. I suppose without health insurance I might be alive, but I’d definitely be bankrupt. The reason I’m neither is I had health insurance to pay most (in 1999, nearly all) of my medical expenses.

All I’m saying is even people without brain tumors or a family history full of cancer and heart disease can’t just afford to pay what the market will bear. I agree that health insurers are standing between us and a system that works. I won’t miss them when they go, but I’m being realistic– I couldn’t and can’t pay out-of-pocket for the medical care that keeps me going. Almost no one can. If we could, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. If we all have single-payer care that equates to my 1999 insurance, minus the bean-counting “murder by spreadsheet,” life in this country will be much more fair, and healthy.

]]> By: Bonnie http://www.mahablog.com/2009/05/12/what-is-the-purpose-of-a-health-care-system-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-619489 Bonnie Wed, 13 May 2009 09:25:40 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=5409#comment-619489 I believe that good health is one of those inalienable rights we are all supposed to have; and, all Americans should have health care that is equal to all other Americans. It is the inequity of our health care system that irritates me the most. Exampe: Sometime in 1999 and 2000, I was living and working in the Washington, DC metropolitan area. At the same time, Michael Jordan was playing for the Washington Wizards. On the very same day, we both injured one of our knees. Michael Jordan had x-rays, mri's, surgery, rehabilitation, and was back on the basketball court playing while I was still trying to get approval for an mri. I mentioned this to one of my doctors (a very young man) and he replied, "Well, of course, he has 32 million dollars." In the end, I had to change health care providers to get my knee fixed. I didn't expect to have my knee put together so well that I could play basketball; but, I did think everything regarding my recovery should have moved a wee bit faster than it did and that I should be able to get around as I did before the injury. I walked for months on a very injured knee before I could get an mri, which was required before a decision on surgery was made. It made the injury worse and was very painful; but, I could not afford to be off work during that time period. When something is unequal, it is dicriminatory. Also, I have no sympathy whatsoever for the insurance companies. They are the reason why healthcare is so expensive. I like the idea of getting rid of the health care insurance business totally. Insurance companies can make money other ways. However, American doctors believe they are owed a summer house, cars for every member of the family, golf club memberships, etc.; and, couldn't have that without insurance companies. We don't have many people becoming doctors for altuistic reasons, mostly for money. Until about the last 15 years ago when sports stars became so high paid, some specialty doctors (e.g., ob/gyn) were the highest paid professionals in this country. I believe that good health is one of those inalienable rights we are all supposed to have; and, all Americans should have health care that is equal to all other Americans. It is the inequity of our health care system that irritates me the most. Exampe: Sometime in 1999 and 2000, I was living and working in the Washington, DC metropolitan area. At the same time, Michael Jordan was playing for the Washington Wizards. On the very same day, we both injured one of our knees. Michael Jordan had x-rays, mri’s, surgery, rehabilitation, and was back on the basketball court playing while I was still trying to get approval for an mri. I mentioned this to one of my doctors (a very young man) and he replied, “Well, of course, he has 32 million dollars.” In the end, I had to change health care providers to get my knee fixed. I didn’t expect to have my knee put together so well that I could play basketball; but, I did think everything regarding my recovery should have moved a wee bit faster than it did and that I should be able to get around as I did before the injury. I walked for months on a very injured knee before I could get an mri, which was required before a decision on surgery was made. It made the injury worse and was very painful; but, I could not afford to be off work during that time period. When something is unequal, it is dicriminatory.

Also, I have no sympathy whatsoever for the insurance companies. They are the reason why healthcare is so expensive. I like the idea of getting rid of the health care insurance business totally. Insurance companies can make money other ways. However, American doctors believe they are owed a summer house, cars for every member of the family, golf club memberships, etc.; and, couldn’t have that without insurance companies. We don’t have many people becoming doctors for altuistic reasons, mostly for money. Until about the last 15 years ago when sports stars became so high paid, some specialty doctors (e.g., ob/gyn) were the highest paid professionals in this country.

]]> By: maha http://www.mahablog.com/2009/05/12/what-is-the-purpose-of-a-health-care-system-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-619485 maha Wed, 13 May 2009 03:29:32 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=5409#comment-619485 Jugheadjack, you have my deepest sympathy. What you're going through is such a tragedy, and unfortunately it's becoming a common tragedy. Jugheadjack, you have my deepest sympathy. What you’re going through is such a tragedy, and unfortunately it’s becoming a common tragedy.

]]> By: dyedinthewoolliberal http://www.mahablog.com/2009/05/12/what-is-the-purpose-of-a-health-care-system-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-619482 dyedinthewoolliberal Wed, 13 May 2009 02:57:40 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=5409#comment-619482 Jugheadjack, I am soooo sorry. Jugheadjack, I am soooo sorry.

]]> By: dyedinthewoolliberal http://www.mahablog.com/2009/05/12/what-is-the-purpose-of-a-health-care-system-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-619481 dyedinthewoolliberal Wed, 13 May 2009 02:56:25 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=5409#comment-619481 to Dave S. I am tired and it is late so maybe I am missing Dave's point. 'And the public plan is going after people that the private carriers don’t want anyway, so where’s the conflict?' The private carriers don't want people who cost more than their premiums. Right? If they take all those people they will not only make no profit they will go broke right? So why would the public system do any better? The glorious beauty of single payer is single risk pool. When that is compromised, the costs are prohibitive. EVERYone has to pay, sick, well, young, old, rich, poor. The well become sick, the young; old, the rich; poor. Take them all and it balances out. Separate them and you get disaster. Another thing, if everyone would eventually choose government plan, how can we allow them to not even give us the choice????? to Dave S. I am tired and it is late so maybe I am missing Dave’s point.
‘And the public plan is going after people that the private carriers don’t want anyway, so where’s the conflict?’ The private carriers don’t want people who cost more than their premiums. Right? If they take all those people they will not only make no profit they will go broke right? So why would the public system do any better? The glorious beauty of single payer is single risk pool. When that is compromised, the costs are prohibitive. EVERYone has to pay, sick, well, young, old, rich, poor. The well become sick, the young; old, the rich; poor. Take them all and it balances out. Separate them and you get disaster.
Another thing, if everyone would eventually choose government plan, how can we allow them to not even give us the choice?????

]]> By: jugheadjack http://www.mahablog.com/2009/05/12/what-is-the-purpose-of-a-health-care-system-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-619479 jugheadjack Wed, 13 May 2009 01:34:28 +0000 http://www.mahablog.com/?p=5409#comment-619479 ii get 1236 dollars amonth my grandson gets 200$ per month. neither my grandson or i have any sort oh health ins. although my grandson does have acess to medicaid, thank god . but my wife has nothing , and she is the sickest we are loosing her because she has no insurance. my grandson has been living withus for eight years now and his caretaker , my wife . is dying, because she has no health ins, she could qualify for medicaid if ididn t make so much money off my so called retirement.. can you believe that ? ii get 1236 dollars amonth my grandson gets 200$ per month. neither my grandson or i have any sort oh health ins. although my grandson does have acess to medicaid, thank god . but my wife has nothing , and she is the sickest we are loosing her because she has no insurance. my grandson has been living withus for eight years now and his caretaker , my wife . is dying, because she has no health ins, she could qualify for medicaid if ididn t make so much money off my so called retirement.. can you believe that ?

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