A right-wing blogger, responding to my last post on abortion, wrote,
And this notion of “underground abortion providers” is a myth in the U.S. There are untold clinics in the U.S. providing abortion services.
Let’s see if I can explain this simply enough so that a garden vegetable, or maybe even a rightie, can grasp it.
Abortion is still legal in the United States. So, there is not much in the way of an underground abortion industry here, because women prefer to get abortions in nice, legal clinics and hospitals. In countries where abortion is legal, generally there are little or no “underground” abortion services.
However, in countries where abortion is illegal, abortions are performed by “underground abortion providers.” This was true in the U.S. before Roe v. Wade. It is still very much true throughout Latin America, which has higher rates of abortion than the U.S. even though abortion is illegal nearly everywhere in Latin America.
It is true of all countries in which abortions are illegal. Well, except maybe Ireland, where women can just take a ferry ride to Britain. I’m not sure about Ireland.
If abortion were criminalized in the U.S., there would be a thriving underground abortion industry in no time, just as there was before Roe v. Wade.
I hope that is clear.
After clicking the link to that idiots page, I doubt your explanation will help him. Some people are just too effing stupid.
Maha,
Your problem is assuming that garden vegetables, or righties, have working memories, unclouded by their ideology.
I grew up in a particularly benighted region of the country, which entire state today has one (1) clinic, staffed by doctors imported from another state on a part-time basis. Back in the 60’s, it had one doctor who was reputed to perform abortions. He was tried repeatedly by various AG’s, but never convicted. His secret? He performed the abortions primarily for girls, and at the behest of their wealthy and prominent families, who would have lost enormously if they admitted his services. Thus, the AG couldn’t get testimony.
Had that doctor performed services for poor girls, he’d almost certainly have died in prison.
That’s how it works when something is illegal. That just means “available only to the rich”. This wasn’t a secret at the time, and should be obvious to anyone of minimal intelligence and understanding (righties obviously excepted).
Well then (g). Why don´t you use the same logic on, say, guns or free speech?
This is what stupid people do; hell we all do it occasionally: we read or hear something we disagree with and inject our already wrongheaded opinions without actually considering the entire opinion and trying to understand what actually is being said. Most wing-nuts or any fanatic do this as a matter of principle, they are so go dam convinced they are right on every issue, they just don’t really listen or read. For example Wing-nuts always say that the 40+ million uninsured is bullshit because anyone can go to an emergency room and get treated, right dumb fuck that is the point, going to the emergency room is very costly and inefficient.
I can’t take this whole abortion debate, as a man I feel I have no right whatsoever to even have an opinion. I can understand women having differing views on the subject, but when men feel obligated to control what women can or can’t do in regards to their health I get a little aggravated.
Maha, chancing slandering turnips are you? same category as righties? no contest there.
IIRC it is legal to get an abortion in Ireland (based on EU law) but the hospital institutions are owned by the RC Church effectively stopping the procedure in them. However, the health service pays for the procedure when performed the next isle over. I am not conversant on the details. In effect, the procedure is available to all Ireland though travel (again IIRC, travel is paid as well) is necessary. Even Ireland is part of the modern civilized world these days.
Well then (g). Why don´t you use the same logic on, say, guns or free speech?
What kind of bleeping idiot would assume that I don’t?
untold clinics
What does that even mean, “untold”? Uncounted? Uncountable?
It’s impossible for legal clinics to be either one, since in all 50 states, they’re regulated half to death (which usually is the legislature’s intention). Their numbers are widely known, so they can be closely watched and harassed.
So “untold clinics” would have to be illegal ones, i.e. secret, i.e. underground. Of course, here maha is forced to point out the obvious: Abortion is still legal in the United States. So, there is not much in the way of an underground abortion industry here….
Idiot commenter was very poorly responding to a point that was never even made, with language that contradicts the commenter’s own argument. Awesome.
Stupid is as stupid writes, imo.
A scenario I’m concerned about is if legalizing/prohibiting abortions reverts to the states, it could set up a situation where the folks with more resources from states where it’s illegal will be able to drive to Maryland or Illinois, say, leaving the poor with far fewer options.
Wealthier (and often paler and more conservative) families would access the procedures they need, while poorer (and often darker and less politically conservative) folks would suffer, and because the more powerful would be be able to opt out of the situation as needed, there’d be less pressure to change it…
[I]f legalizing/prohibiting abortions reverts to the states, it could set up a situation where the folks with more resources from states where it’s illegal will be able to drive to Maryland or Illinois, say, leaving the poor with far fewer options.
Wayne, that’s exactly how it was, pre-Roe. There was a patchwork of legalization and it created exactly the scenario for poor women that you describe.
I understand some states now have laws on the books that make it a crime to travel to another state to obtain an abortion. Whether these have been challenged in court I do not know.
Yes, and when the prohibition against alcohol was lifted, the mafia found there was no profit in the speakeasy business.