We Haven’t Hit Bottom Yet.

Trump just announced, with Netanyahu standing beside him, that the U.S. would occupy Gaza, deport all the residents, and develop the region into the “Riviera of the Middle East.” And U.S. troops will be deployed to do this. I am horrified.

20 thoughts on “We Haven’t Hit Bottom Yet.

  1. From what I understand, Egypt and Jordan are not willing to take refugees, permanently or temporarily. My guess is that Musk will sell gas chambers to Israel.

    The UN will not take kindly to this – if the US participates, we may be subject to international sanctions. If the UN can not (due to our veto), the EU and other nations can do it independently. Arab nations may respond. 

    Cruelty is the point.

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  2. Yep, you are right. The orange moron is definitely doing the ol' lookee thataway and the libs owning while the thugs do something nasty. To the sewer and beyond!

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    • I think it's extremely naive to dismiss the Gaza scheme as just a distraction; especially not with Bibi Netanyahu standing right next to him as he spoke. He also proposed clearing all the Palestinians out of the West Bank and giving it to Israel. The hard right in Israel is ecstatic. I think Trump sincerely wants to do this. He’ll hit a lot of obstacles, fortunately. 

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      • Well, I guess my callous point is that this is not the bottom, be prepared for much, much, much worse. I don't know what that looks like, but there is nothing stopping the orange menace on his crime spree. His idea is so insanely "outside the box" that it just can't be anything except misdirection. I am still simpleton who thinks that people would be outraged by the concept of ethic cleansing for condo development and it would be a non-starter. If it is even taken as anything but 25th amendment kind of stuff, it must be misdirection. The GOP is either locked in sunk-cost fallacy or just evil so the bottom is a long way down.

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  3. Overreach with extreme risk to all citizens is my call at this point in time.  Just fear and loathing would be underestimating the gravity of the situation IMO.  At this level of horror, rapid de-escalation is required. Remember that the path to hell is paved with good intentions by people who do not understand just how bad things can get. Two names should have just popped into your mind fitting that description to a T. 

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  4. The "Trump Riviera", stolen by donnie and his friends, demo'ed and rebuilt by the American taxpayer.  Oh, goody, another bankruptcy candidate in ten years.

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  5. From CNN:

    "

    • Egypt: Palestinians should not be leaving Gaza while it is being rebuilt, Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelatty said. He said recovery from the conflict should happen “without the Palestinians leaving the Gaza Strip, especially given their attachment to their land and their refusal to leave it.”
    • Saudi Arabia: The nation affirmed its “unwavering” support for a Palestinian state and restated its long-held position that it will not commit to normalization of relations with Israel without such guarantees.
    • Qatar: Arab nations will reconstruct Gaza while Palestinians remain in the enclave, Qatar’s foreign ministry spokesperson Majed Al Ansari told Fox News on Wednesday. Ansari said the focus should be on continuing negotiations for a permanent ceasefire in Gaza that would extend a current truce between Hamas and Israel.
    • Jordan: King Abdullah II reaffirmed his rejection of any plans that include displacing Palestinians from Gaza or the occupied West Bank. He “stressed the need to stop (Jewish) settlement activities and reject any attempts to annex lands and displace Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank,” a statement published by Jordan’s state news agency read.

    Last week, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt and other Arab allies also issued a statement reaffirming their long-held desire for a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and pledging their “continued full support for the steadfastness of the Palestinian people on their land.”

    ———————————————-

    Nothing prevents Trump from committing US soldiers to occupy Gaza. They can't  "relocate" anybody until there is a place to relocate the Palistinians to. Trump hasn't offered a dime of US money to build the wonderful place(s) Trump described. It doesn't look like the Arab nations are keen on the idea. At this point, there is no place and no money for the idea. 

    If the idea goes nowhere, it's significant that Trump supported what amounts to "ethnic cleansing" without overt genocide. It's sad that the US will be associated with that but Trump will never be rid of his endorsement of it.

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  6. Yes, we haven't hit bottom yet.

    Yes, this is terrifying: it is undeniably "ethnic cleansing", and I would never want my country to support anything like it, much less take full responsibility for it.

    OTOH, we must recognize that the status quo there is not sustainable.  First, it's time to admit that there can be no "Two-State Solution" now.  I've been saying for years (decades?) that it died with Yitzak Rabin, but American politics has made it impossible for people – particularly Democrats – to admit it.  This sad truth must now be faced.

    The Hamas raid on 10/7/23 convinced a huge majority of [Jewish/Zionist] Israelis that they cannot be safe with any kind of Palestinian State on their borders – even one with the very limited autonomy and resources they previously allowed in Gaza.  The whole point of the modern State of Israel has always been the promise of a secure, prosperous State for the Jewish People on the land that [they believe] their God promised to them.  The Oct 7 raid punctured their illusion of safety, and their reaction was, well, unsparing (and appalling).

    I'd bet that most Palestinians have known for years that Israel would never allow them any real chance at self-governance, but the way that Israel flattened Gaza has made this obvious and undeniable.

    Does anyone here still really believe that Israel will accept a viable Palestinian State on its borders?

    The options now, frankly, are genocide or ethnic cleansing.  IMO, it would be far easier to evacuate the Jews rather than the Arabs (Israeli Jews have far more money, language skills, connections and roots in countries around the world), but who would take me seriously about that?  "Not politically feasible", in either Israel or the USA, so therefore it's "impossible".

    Which brings me back to American politics.  IMO, the debacle in Gaza is a big reason that Kamala Harris got way fewer votes in 2024 than Biden got in 2020.  Biden & Democrats couldn't admit that the long-standing US position on Israel/Palestine was fundamentally bankrupt.  The Biden Admin's actions in the Gaza War pleased no one.  American supporters of Israel were annoyed that we scolded Israel about civilian deaths in Gaza; supporters of Palestinian rights were horrified that we kept supplying Israel weapons to continue the bombing which caused those deaths.  Harris did not – could not? – distance herself from that failed policy, for fear of alienating one side or the other; and of course, that wound up alienating everybody who actually cares about US Foreign Policy.

    Again, I do *not* support Trump's idea of forcibly relocating Palestinians against their will to countries that don't want them.  IMO, that's bound to fail, maybe catastrophically.  At the very least, Trump will alienate all Arab countries (and a Billion Muslims around the world), just by trying to do it; at the worst, it could drag us into *another* damn war in the Middle East (which could easily turn into WWIII – now, that would be "hitting bottom").

     

    • I'm the last one to suggest there is an EASY solution to the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. Eventually, there will be a solution, or a resolution. Some are pretty ugly, like the way the US handled the Native Americans. Or Hitler handled the Jews.. It's worth the effort to find a more civilized outcome.

      Your screed doesn't suggest one. You are certain there is no "two-state solution."  And you think that genocide and ethnic cleansing are the only two options. But you propose as an alternative that maybe all the Jews in Israel may move out. Your reasoning is not what I'd call well-grounded. 

      My opinion is only an opinion. I don't think the two-state solution will be easy but it is possible. Again, no one brought me tablets from the mountaintop but if both sides committed to the goal of mutual security (not murdering each other) there are still gonna be hotheads on both sides itching for war. So there would need to be an international force patrolling the border for decades. (The US intervened with success to halt a bloodbath in Kosovo but we have earned no credibility with the Palestinians.)

      Europe and the Arab nations would have to perform guard duty – IF you can first implement the two-state solution where the legitimate governments on both sides commit to monitoring the activities of groups who would end the peace. Probably it would take as many generations to wind down hostilities as created the tension. I won't live to see the final peace, but I will stand up for the beginning of that peace.

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  7. Trump is indeed for ethnic cleansing. On the other hand, the alternative is to leave the Gazans in an uninhabitable war zone. That's slow genocide. On the third hand, no Arab nation will take the Palestinians in. Ask the Kuwaitis, the Lebanese, and the Syrians why.

    In theory the Gazans could stay during rebuilding; but that would require their active cooperation, and with whom will they cooperate? The Saudis? The Egyptians? The USA? The Israelis?! If just given money, then Hamas would spend it all on weapons and on tunnels to shelter themselves.

    Any contractor would have to dispose of skeletons and unexploded ordinance.

    My crackpot theory is that the land between the river and the sea is cursed. 200,000 years ago a Neanderthal shaman saw H. Sapiens invading from Africa, and said, "If we can't keep this land then no-one can," and it's been that way ever since.

     

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  8. 1/6 never stopped, it was just on hold.  The coup continues.  You can call it State Capture if you want to wash the Shiessntag label off, but I like that label.  It should probably have those strange sses they use in German or perhaps an umlaut.  Like the coup, 1/6. state capture, and Shiessentag its birthday, it is a work in process.  Remember in German when two vowels go a walking the last one does the talking.  

    Tylor McBrien writes a guest opinion for the NYT today and has quite a large writing footprint in a number of credible publications.  He is the one with state capture notion applied to the current US situation.  Tylor addresses that situation with the question:

    Who exactly is running the federal government?

    His answer appears quite valid and fits much writing at this blog.

    It’s troubling enough not to be able to answer emphatically with “democratically elected leaders.” Even more troubling is the possibility that the actual answer is Mr. Musk — the world’s richest man — and other unaccountable, unelected, unconfirmed allies cozy with the president.

    Elizabeth David-Barrett is the author Tylor cites for the term state capture.

    Elizabeth David Barrett is Professor of Governance and Integrity at the University of Sussex and Director of the Centre for the Study of Corruption. Her research focuses on corruption risks at the interface of business and government, and she is currently writing a book on how state capture manifests around the world.

    No, the idea of state capture is not the creation of US deplorables.  They stole the idea which is in my experience their way.  The international deplorables did the prototypes and they are just attempting an US version.  This association of deplorables seems to congregate at various rabbit holes and is bound together by common tendencies of corruption.  But I speculate on this.

    One commenter to the op ed identified as Jan from Virgina wrote in a style reminiscent of the legendary gulag:

    It LOOKS that way?? It IS that way. No one is stopping him. I keep hearing Democrats need to do something, but WHERE ARE THE REPUBLICANS?? Are they OK with this? Evidently, a resounding yes. They just advanced 2 of the most unqualified candidates for Cabinet positions. We are in a crisis and they are afraid of Daddy Trump.

    This is the end of America.

    A commenter from SW Ohio who calls herself Pedigrees childfree catdoghorse lady penned:

    "State capture occurs when wealthy private interests influence a government to such a degree that they can freely direct policy decisions and public funds for their own benefit…" This has been the case for decades now. It's not just Musk. Koch, DeVos, Uihlein, Mellon, Adelson, Mellon, etc. We have an entire class of people who think they're entitled to direct the government simply because they are rich. SCOTUS justices openly take bribes and then tell us that bribery is "gratuities" and we should just shut up and accept that. State capture got us to where we are today. The author states that "… state capture creates broad, long-lasting systemic inequality and diminished public services." Is there anyone who can dispute that we're not already there? Lewis Powell wrote a memo about state capture in 1971. St. Ronnie brought it out into the open. Citizens United cemented it. Now we're seeing the results. And it ain't pretty for most of us.

    TS from Hudson Valley writes on a thread common to other about taxes.  She lists @ E Bennett in her comment.  The notion that the Federal Government has voided its right to tax by this coup seems valid.  

    States should collect the Federal taxes and hold in escrow while bringing lawsuits against executive branch for orders that cut off federal funding to states or shut down federal services to U.S. citizens. Use the power of state government to shield individuals withholding of federal taxes.

    Another comment from Michael Schmitt from Germany struck notes similar to this blog with:

    In medieval times the rulers of European kingdoms very often employed a jester to entertain themselves and/or the guests at the court. The king currently occupying the White House might have had the same idea when hiring Musk for the jester’s position. However, it turns out that the jester has turned the cards and employs the king for entertainment and eventually serving for his own ideas.

    Much more to explore and read from comments, replies, the op ed itself, and links.

    Opinion | Musk? Trump? Who Exactly Is Running the Federal Government? – The New York Times

     

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  9. During the campaign Trump said that if Biden/Harris were elected they would trigger WWIII, and now he's on the verge of doing exactly that with this latest insanity.  Every accusation is a confession. Putting US troops in Gaza is putting them in ground zero of Middle Eastern conflict, with a bullseye on their backs.  After what Israel has done the last 18 months with the material support of the US, there are a lot of enemies who'd love this, or just Gazans looking for revenge.  And if a US service person gets seriously injured or killed, the situation will escalate, with the US responding with fury, and with Trump in office with no one to stop him this time, its a good bet things could go nuclear.  Then there's the cost of it all, and to what end does this serve the national security interests of the US?   But it would serve the interest of greed of Trump and his crony billionaires, ready to swoop in and redevelop the land for profit.  Trump's gotten so brazen he'd be directing the building of Trump branded condos from the oval office.  Meanwhile, do they really think were they to do this, that Palestinians removed from their land would ever let them enjoy it?  They've already likely created a whole new generation of terrorists with the Gaza slaughter.  Doing this would reverberate down through generations to come, guaranteeing conflict.  

    I don't believe this is a mere distraction; Trump wants this, to sate the two drivers in his id: ego and money.   With this administration, to understand what's really going on, follow the money, or the scent of it.

    I believe this is more than a distaction, and its not just to 

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  10. What Stump is throwing out there is actually what the right-wing (the ones in power) in Israel has been calling for decades. From the river to the sea! In this country our Israel enabling media always ascribes that phrase to the Palestinians, but it has been used by both sides and of course only one side has the ability to actually pull it off. Stump and Bibi know damn well that Egypt, Jordan and the Saudi's are not going to go along with this. So, the whole point of this foolishness is to show that with no other options and Hamas threatening retaliation Bibi will have to finish the job in Gaza on his own (with bombs and bulldozers supplied by us) that arms deal was announced today as well. MSNBC had James Zogby on this morning, and he laid the whole scheme out perfectly, I was actually surprised the brass at NBC let him speak so frankly. Stump is the fool they are using to float this ludicrous plan, but I put all of the blame on Bibi and Biden. Had Biden stood up to Bibi and the pro-Israel forces in this country early on we never would have gotten to this point. In fact, I can argue that if Biden had stood up to Bibi Stump wouldn't be sitting in the White House right now. Lie down with dogs wake up with fleas.

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  11. I'm the last one to suggest there is an EASY solution to the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. Eventually, there will be a solution, or a resolution. Some are pretty ugly, like the way the US handled the Native Americans. Or Hitler handled the Jews.. It's worth the effort to find a more civilized outcome.

    Your screed doesn't suggest one. You are certain there is no "two-state solution."  And you think that genocide and ethnic cleansing are the only two options. But you propose as an alternative that maybe all the Jews in Israel may move out. Your reasoning is not what I'd call well-grounded. 

    My opinion is only an opinion. I don't think the two-state solution will be easy but it is possible. Again, no one brought me tablets from the mountaintop but if both sides committed to the goal of mutual security (not murdering each other) there are still gonna be hotheads on both sides itching for war. So there would need to be an international force patrolling the border for decades. (The US intervened with success to halt a bloodbath in Kosovo but we have earned no credibility with the Palestinians.)

    Europe and the Arab nations would have to perform guard duty – IF you can first implement the two-state solution where the legitimate governments on both sides commit to monitoring the activities of groups who would end the peace. Probably it would take as many generations to wind down hostilities as created the tension. I won't live to see the final peace, but I will stand up for the beginning of that peace.

    • [I'm replying here, as this is a dup of Doug's reply to my, uh, "screed" above]

      I really wish I could continue to hope for a peaceful outcome there, and I admit that it's not really impossible.  Forty years ago, I thought that the Apartheid regime in South Africa could only be overturned by violent revolution; I was really surprised that they capitulated [relatively] peacefully under international diplomatic and economic pressure.  So, yeah, anything is possible, I guess…

      But my concern is that liberal Americans cling to the idea of a "Two-State Solution" as a palliative, an attempt to hide or offset our responsibility for the deaths, casualties, and enforced poverty in Gaza.  Many (most? all?) of the bombs Israel dropped on Gaza were made in the USA, from warplanes made in the USA, all paid for by our tax dollars (via grants, or loans that are later quietly forgiven).

      This is kinda personal to me, because the factory where I worked for 25 years made parts for F-16's and related ordnance (bombs).  Some of the parts that I have seen and touched may well now be scattered in the rubble of Gaza.  That's blood on my hands, and I *hate* that.

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  12. With Eloon in the news almost as much as Stump I would like to know why (especially on msnbc) they don't include his Nazi salute when they show his b-roll? Do you think if FAUX had video of Biden's right hand man paying homage to Hilter they would hold back, hell no.

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  13. Trying to catch the international vibes from fly over county is hard, so I may be projecting too much into my perceived reaction to the Führer 's Gaza genocide/ethnic cleansing/reconstruction plan.  There is just no desire for any GAGA style in Gaza.  Rubble is preferential to God/Awful/Gawdy/Architecture for the Strip, and he can just jam a minaret where the sun does not shine. Like I said I don't have the best view and lots of translation is needed but that is what vibes I am catching so far.

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  14. I’ve seen the news snippets of Dearborn Arabs saying they’d vote the same way all over again.  To them I’d say: So put your balls where your mouth is.  Give away everything you own and move to Gaza, to help your Islamic brethren move out to wherever their next designated destination is going to be.  And do be sure to explain to them why you voted your way.

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