29 thoughts on “Read the Bill”

1. While we’re at it, I’d like to know how many rightie Congrsespeople who were screaming “OMG teh bill is SO LONG we haven’t had a chance to READ it we need to put it off until after August we need to READ it” then spent August, you know, reading it.

2. Nice rebuttal. I don’t see how it could be any more clear than that. I hope a lot of other bloggers link to this post, as you single-handedly smacked down that asshole Wilson.

3. I do feel the need to point out that the quoted bit from HR 3200 is commonly known as a “fact.” Righties, as we know, lack a even passing familiarity with the entire “fact” concept.

4. I would urge the righties to read not only H.R. 3200, but also their own insurance policies. In my view, the primary reason we haven’t been able to achieve any meaningful health care reform is that most Americans are blissfully unaware of how bad their existing coverage is because they’ve never had a serious illness.

   Like most people, I had no idea what was covered by my health insurance policy until I was forced by circumstances to find out. In my case, it wasn’t an illness that forced me to educate myself. It was the loss of group coverage when my wife’s employer sold his business. Comparing the terms and provisions of different policies was an enlightening experience. I feel certain that most people who claim to be “happy” with their coverage have never really looked at it.

   I think I will curl up with H.R. 3200 this weekend (I notice it was introduced on July 14 – Bastille Day – and I take that to be a good omen). One of the questions I have is whether I will qualify for whatever form of “public option” is passed by Congress. Like most people, I would like to have this choice but Obama gave me the impression that as long as I have “access” to group coverage (no matter how shitty it is?) I wouldn’t be able to choose the public option.

   So, I took a quick look at H.R. 3200 and, according to Title II, Subtitle A, Section 202(a) at page 73, I would not qualify for the public option if I’m “enrolled in another qualified plan or other acceptable coverage.” I’ve read enough statutes and proposed legislation to know I have to scour the Bill for definitions of “enrolled,” “qualified plan,” and “acceptable coverage” before I can even begin to guess what this legislation will mean to me.

   Statutory construction — time-consuming and not for the faint of heart.

5. I’ve had it with the crazies, the nay sayers, the insurance consortia defenders, the president’s chewing at the edges of this humongous problem – the fact is that the providers of private health insurance are exempt from anti-trust laws. Translate that unmentioned reality into reality and it is obvious that we will continue to have to pay exorbitant amounts of money for health care, whether indirectly in taxes ,or directly out of pocket, or being forced to take sub-standard wages, anti-trust laws guarantee a competitive market and without it, we’re up shit-creek.

   So why should/are health insurance corporations exempt from anti-trust laws and why isn’t anybody talking about it. Where are Ida Tarbell or even Teddy R. when we need them. And where the hell is Obama on this major issue.

6. To be completely fair to those who don’t deserve such fairness, I believe an intelligent rightie, (if one can be imagined as a hypothetical) would say that passage only applies to affordability credits. So no, we won’t be paying for illegals to have health care, but, if an illegal could pay for it themselves somehow out of their chicken processing or cherry-picking pay, the plan would allow them to buy and use a health insurance plan, including the hypothetical public one from the proposed exchange.

   Why this is considered a bug and not a feature is beyond me, since I see the benefit to me in getting such people treatment for their tuberculosis or other infectious diseases as early and conveniently as possible, and enjoy the freedom to not document my citizenship or legal residency status every time I go to the doctor for a flu shot. (Since my ancestors lived here before the United States was even founded, I get annoyed when asked to prove I’m here legally. It’s a pet peeve.)

   Still, I believe that, lurking behind all that nonsense about reading the bill, lies a particle of an idea about forcing people to show proof of legality at the doctor, even if they could pay for it themselves, because Righties so hate illegals that they’d be willing to risk public health, and impose annoying burdens on everyone, just to spite them.

7. For all of the new troll’s visiting this site, please know your facts. Because if you don’t, you will be embarassed.
   And, since none of you have few, if ANY fact’s to support your position, good luck painting a Mona Lisa on top of your ‘paint-your-number’s’ positions.
   I am referring to the previous maha post’s where we have new turd’s, er, troll’s, making some stupid opinion’s which are heavy on ‘opinion,’ and not on any points that could be considered “fact’s.’

8. The silver lining to all of this is the pushback on this particular lie. This pushback is surfacing on this blog and elsewhere. The frosting on the cake is that Rob Miller, Joe “Liar” Wilson’s opponent, has raised a ton of cash in a matter of hours.

9. But…but…but…you have to ‘read the bill’ with the eyes of a Teabagger, and then you will see that Obama has this super power which allows him to make words mean the opposite of their dictionary definitions when your back is turned.

   Thus, NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS, while unambiguous enough to us Earthlings, really means YES FREE FEDERAL MONEY FOR MESKINS WHATEVER THEY WANT THEY’RE GONNA TAKE YER JORBS AND YER HEALTHCARE TOO DEATH PANELS YEA. Only the initiated can see that. Just as “stay in school and work hard” transforms into “socialism now, hate Amurca, kill granny, rat out your parents to our jackbooted thugs, worship Satan” by the time it reaches the tender brains of the nation’s schoolchildren. Why, it couldn’t be plainer.

10. For all of the new trolls visiting this site, please know your facts. Because if you don’t, you will be embarrassed.

    em bar rassed Experiencing self-conscious distress.

    There. Now they know the meaning of the word.

11. You should have been Seargent Maha on Dragnet, like Friday only better. “Nothing but the facts, wingnut.” LOL.

    If they haven’t been embarassed already they will never be. This is what happens to ideas that arise from excessive conceptual inbreeding and lack of curiosity. Their assertions become as deformed as their offspring might have been had the same practices occurred in their physical lives.

12. Joan,
    Maybe I spelled it wrong. Maybe it should be “I’membare-assed.”
    Meaning, ‘I’ve just said something so dumb, my parent’s will wonder how they could give birth and raise someone so ‘bare-assed’ fucking stupid. As in, ‘I’membare-assed that I gave birth to that stupid turd….’

13. em bare assed Unique spelling for use when referring to Mark Sanford.

    So we’re able to tell those S.C. GOPers apart!

    Or, as in: 30 seconds of factchecking easily revealed Rep. Joe Wilson’s embare-assed lie.

14. SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.

    Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

    Maha,

    I think maybe its the wording that is confusing the dimwitted teabaggers, maybe it should be re-written in the language they understand:

    THE WETBACKS, SPICS, SANDNIGGERS and ANYONE ELSE WHO DON’T LOOK LIKE THEY BELONG HERE WILL BE LEFT ON THE HOSPITAL CURB TO DIE.

    I’m sure this rewrite would insure speedy passage of the bil!

15. Speaking of Bills….What is the bill for Iraq and Afghanistan going to come in at when we finally decide to stop throwing money down those two rat holes. I hear we’ve reduced our expenditure in Iraq to under 4 billion a month. That’s a considerable savings!

16. You know reading all the dimwitted teabagger posts here today got me thinking. I think we all know why most of these numskulls hate Obama so much, they are reminded of their hatred every time they see his face, or his wife’s face or his daughters. I think we all know what they really don’t like. But the childish acting out at town halls, the “teabagging” events, the carrying of guns to public political events, it all reeks of amateur hour. Fortunately in the end I believe it will damage the GOP for years to come. I have seen these teabaggers more than once use the phrase “Obama you have awoke a sleeping giant”. And yes I think he has, most of these dimwits couldn’t give a shit about government or politics until that “Nigger” got elected. Pre-Obama all they cared about was nascar (which I like-hey I’m from Indiana), prices at wal-mart, American idol, etc. Which is fine. Being an intellectual midget is ones choice and frankly the world was getting along fine without most of these folks being politically engaged. But once word got out that that “shine” was gonna beat Hillary and possibly win the POTUS all hell has been breaking out. Socialism, Fascism, Tyranny, feed the tree of liberty, Death panels, and on and on.

    It all seems very amateurish and childish because that is what it is. These dimwitted teabaggers never gave a shit about anything in the past, and until the “nigger” is out of office they won’t give a shit about the future.

17. This is a really wise assessment from an unexpected quarter:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/evan-handler/have-you-no-decency-sir-a_b_282395.html

    Very well said, and the comparison to Italy is fascinating and infuriating. Check it out if you have a few minutes to spare.

18. Joanr16, I enjoyed the article you posted. Here’s another one from Huffington Post, written by Carolyn Myss. She’s well known in spiritual circles, and IMO has some profound/tough things to say about politics (she’s been venturing into this space in recent years). A few excerpts:

    …History offers us very few pivotal opportunities to intercede in the disintegrating fate of a nation and to once again animate its destiny. We stand now at such a momentous crossroads, and it is up to all of us to handle this moment and the delicate power that is presently rushing through our collective spirit with a heightened awareness that we are setting great consequences in motion. It has fallen upon the shoulders of President Obama and this Congress to make decisions bold enough to reanimate America’s destiny. And along with Obama and this Congress, we are the generation of Americans to whom the task has been given to renew the Founding Fathers’ vision of liberty, humanism, and a devotion to equality of law, or we shall be the generation remembered for having let this vision perish. Such is the power of standing at the crossroads of fate and destiny.

    …Like the climate that spawned the American Revolution or gave this nation the stamina to hold itself together through the shattering of a devastating Civil War, crossroads of fate and destiny demand that individuals respond to their nation as they never have before, as if the nation itself was calling to them for aid. But such a privilege comes with responsibilities. We must pause and assess this path America is on and not from through the typical political lens of Republican versus Democrat. Rather, the force of destiny demands courageous leadership and choices that are bold, often forging new pathways that must be taken because the old ways have ceased to be productive. When individuals come to a crossroads of fate and destiny in their own life, it is an opportunity to start again, but that new beginning cannot look like the life they are leaving behind. They must relinquish patterns of behavior that have become dysfunctional. The shedding of the old patterns is painful, make no mistake. There is nothing simple, easy, or comfortable about arriving at these crossroads of life. They are indeed symbolic roads of crucifixion. And yet they are also inevitable. No road in life, not the road of a nation or of an individual, is a smooth and direct path.

    As I watched President Obama address the joint session of Congress, detailing his vision of health care coverage for all Americans, I also saw him as someone confronting the forces of fate and destiny. I imagined this Congress standing alongside him on this cosmic power point, not capable of ever realizing that their actions, cleverly disguised as the business of politics, were actually having an intensified field effect upon the psyche of this nation. This is the moment that history has chosen for us to address this question: Shall we shift our direction from the fearful and divisive path we have been walking on for almost a decade or shall we come together again as one nation and envision a new future? Such a decision is of cosmic proportions though such questions generally are disguised within an issue that brings up great controversy within the populace. But such controversy and bubbling outrage that comes to the surface over any one issue — in this case it’s health care — is not really fully about health care. The health care issue is actually the straw on the camel’s back.

    The truth is this epidemic of outrage is rooted in the fact that at our instinctual level, we know our nation is changing — not because of the policies of President Obama, or even because of the many blunders of all the previous administrations. Our nation is changing because the times we live in call for dramatic shifts in our way of life, and though we would love to return to the golden years of post World War II and Happy Days and Donna Reed and Disneyland, and the myth that we are entitled to earn more than are parents just because we are Americans, what we are now experiencing is the shattering of that myth — and it hurts. Health care, symbolically translated, “Who is going to care for me?”, just happens to be the perfect issue to shatter the myth that we will always have everything we want because we are entitled to it.

    But that shattering is not the fault of the Republicans or the Democrats. It’s just time for that myth to shatter because it can no longer be sustained by momentum of our own economics and the evolution of where we fit in with the rest of the world. We now have to readjust ourselves, our economics, our politics, our sense of who we are, what we need — not what we think we are entitled to — but what we need, according to an organic global scale and not an ego-fear driven scale that constantly tells us that if we do not dominate everything and everyone, we are doomed to starve. It is the timing of history and the pressure of global and environmental changes that we cannot control that are now calling the shots, changes so vast and powerful that we have yet to even notice them….

    In truth, we have entered a new era of change itself and that alone has brought us to these crossroads. We are now living in a world in which all change is of universal proportions, affecting all nations of this world in some way with a speed never before experienced. And that “speed of intimacy” will only increase in the years to come. The forces of change are also felt immediately by the masses of humanity. Epidemics travel by planes, terrorism can strike anywhere at any time, the markets in one country shift our wealth while we sleep in this country. The nature of change as it now exists has disintegrated all familiar boundaries. And thus we must now think of all change as having ascended to the status of “profound”. The significance of the choices we make as a nation and as individuals in support of our nation — or opposed to it — will matter more at this time than can be measured. We are energetically linked to the global community, moving our thoughts around this planet to hundreds if not thousands of people in seconds. This power of the Internet, as it is referred to, is new to our world and it is a profound power, not a casual one, as it holds the potential of contributing great truth or great lies without being held personally responsible for either initiating these actions or their consequences. Yet, such actions have consequences, as we are now witnessing in the response to the lies manufactured about death panels, for example.

    In our collective intuitive gut, we know we are standing at the precipice of great change and in keeping with this new era of energy we are in, these changes are indeed happening at light speed. We don’t want the familiar, cozy, wonderful parts of the American lifestyle to come under scrutiny, but the fact is that is exactly what is happening. Again, this is not the result of the policies of the Republicans or Democrats. It’s simply what happens at the end of a cycle and we have come to the end of a cycle of American history. What we as well as our politicians are responsible for, however, is how well we negotiate this moment in time. What we must hold them accountable for is the management of their pride, their arrogance, their lies, their decisions not to participate in a bi-partisan government and to continue the blood bath politics so cleverly crafted by Karl Rove and Dick Cheney, and to sabotage all the efforts of President Obama to forge a new path out of a burning forest….

    If we look carefully at the behavior of the Republican clan, however, it is not difficult to see through their foggy brains and well-rehearsed behavior. People or individuals who rely upon arrogant and sarcastic behavior and opinions as weapons of mass destruction do so because they are frightened, confused, and lack any sense of how to lead the nation themselves. Truth be told, they are probably relieved as birds out of a cage that they are not in charge of the White House this session….They knew all along that if McCain and Lipstick-Palin didn’t get in, they could continue to play their Karl Rovian tactics and sabotage good people along with any plans that challenged corporate wallets. It actually works in their favor to have Obama take the hits for the cowardice with which they managed this country during the last administration (and this time I am referring to the Bush administration, the wars in the Middle East, the huge debt Obama inherited, Wall Street policies, subprime mortgages, etc).

    As a result of these last years under Rove and Cheney, the Republicans have become very clever at anger management — by that I mean managing the anger of Americans. Repression and threats of anti-patriotism were their most effective methods of controlling the anger of the American public. Now that Americans do not feel as frightened to speak out, pent up anger that is years old is pouring out and Republicans are using that anger, as cleverly and effectively as Goebbels did under Hitler. They want to scare their own nation and keep them scared. They want to continue to build hatred just as Goebbels did. The health care issue is a perfect artery for all this anger, but all this anger is not about this health care issue. Make no mistake about that. It’s about having been betrayed by their own government so blatantly for eight years. No wonder Americans are finding it so easy to turn on Obama.

    In such a tumultuous climate, is it any wonder that we must stand at these crossroads of America’s fate and destiny with a genuine realization that we are really standing at these crossroads? True, history itself has brought us to this moment in time, but it is up to us to handle this moment, to breathe our choices into this moment. We cannot go backwards. We cannot return to an America who dominated the world with its wealth and military power and its might. We have been humbled, like it or not. Our soldiers are exhausted — bless their souls — and our bank account is busted. Unemployment is sky high and our debt has never been higher. The only way to go now is forwards.

    And we can do this. If you know anything about the American spirit at all, you know that it finds defeat mighty distasteful. It’s much more likely that if you give the American spirit some inspiration, some hope, some encouragement to go forward with pioneering new ideas, it will not fail….We are a limitless people with a limitless capacity to create, to serve, and to share. We can and we must reanimate the destiny of America because it is in its purest form a destiny of humanism, of liberty, and of free thought. We cannot lose those values. We must not lose them. But most of all, we must not lose sight of the fact that beyond these Republicans and Democrats who are temporarily in office, we are permanently Americans. Any politician who uses his office to foster hatred of a fellow American is committing a form of treason against the fabric of this nation’s well being. Such politicians are unfit to be role models for what good American citizens truly are. We must not model our politics on theirs for theirs are tainted with private agendas filled with greed, ambition, and personal gain. We must keep our loyalties focused where they belong — upon the vision of this nation and not a misguided loyalty to a contaminated political party that fosters hatred of a fellow American….

19. My two cents: I think to some degree we are missing the point. I love having this blog and others where I can read intelligent comments and Maha’s interesting fact based essays, but wing nuts don’t care. The best thing about Rush Limbaugh is he never changes his script – Obama could have said he was the second coming last night and Rush Limbaugh would have had the exact same reply: “government take over, cut my taxes, what about your liberty?, Ronald Reagan could do better at preserving liberty, etc.” My point is this segment of our population are not interested in offering anything constructive in regards to the national dialog and will demigod whatever anyone says. I fear there is no productive solution to this problem.

20. The Congress is back in session and doing the dirty work for the Medical Industrial Complex.mcconnell $3.3M, hatch $2.9M, baucus $2.8M, grassley $2.7M,lieberman $2.6M, burr $2.4M, ensign $2.4M, cornyn $2.2M, kyl $2.1M,conrad $2.1M, cantor $1.8M boehner $1.7M, coburn $1.2M, j wilson 800K werepaid by the Medical Industrial Complex to kill Health Care Reform.
    12 Million Americans were denied Health Care Coverage by the Medical Industrial Complex because they had a Pre-Existing Medical Condition. 12K Americans lose Insurance Coverage everyday. Over 18K Americans die each day because they lack health insurance. (Source: WaPo Article 05′ by Harvard Prof. E. Warren)
    Follow the Money: LinkCall Congress and demand, Single-Payer Health Care for All!Sign Single-Payer Petition: LinkDon’t let the Medical Industrial Complex steal your Health Care from you and your family by donating huge sums of money to Crooked Politicians in order to maintain the Status Quo. Keep up the good fight.SEMPER FI!

21. When we wrote the draft constitution (Article 31) for Iraq in 2005, we made health care a right and developed a SINGLE PAYER system for them… but we can’t have one ourselves. Think about it.

22. moonbat – very nice. I especially liked:

    The truth is this epidemic of outrage is rooted in the fact that at our instinctual level, we know our nation is changing — not because of the policies of President Obama, or even because of the many blunders of all the previous administrations. Our nation is changing because the times we live in call for dramatic shifts in our way of life, and though we would love to return to the golden years of post World War II and Happy Days and Donna Reed and Disneyland, and the myth that we are entitled to earn more than [our] parents just because we are Americans, what we are now experiencing is the shattering of that myth….

    (Sorry; it bore repeating.)

    Crazy About Urban Planning – I agree with you in the sense that about 18 percent of the population is filled to the brim with rage and bile, incapable of reasonable debate. That was the core support for Bush a year ago, and it remains the core extreme-Right today. However, there appears to be a huge group in the middle– about 40-45 percent of the population– that helped elect Obama, or didn’t vote in the last election but still has the power to think somewhat, rather than merely react. Apparently these people despise the rage as much as we do, and are hungry for the facts presented by reasonable voices. (If the GOP presented a few facts, the middle group would listen, but in the past 24 hours. the GOP has been pretty clearly exposed as liars in the pay of health insurers.)

    Overnight, Obama gained about 14 points favorability on the health-care reform issue. He got that by speaking calmly and reasonably, citing real-world examples, and offering some specifics (if nowhere near enough). Obama’s gain almost cancels out the shrieking lunatics who hate him for whatever personal-malfunctional reason.

    It’s for the vast middle of the American public that we need to keep talking, digging up facts, and shooting down lies.

23. I agree with CAUR…and for purposes of the dialog they must be ignored but they must be marginalized to the point that our national media can be shamed at their M.O. of keeping the food fight going at all costs. The rabble are moving some of the more sensible conservatives back toawrds us. They cannot afford to be tainted and they have seen what Joe Wilson’s opponent, Rob Miller, has amassed in a very short time. They are growing concerned for the first time about continuing down this path.

    Quite simply, the more American’s witness of the seamy underbelly that comes along with insincere dialog of bought-and-paid-for Republicans in Congress who tacitly approve and encourage the tactics in order to nurture an ever-dwindling base…well, the more they become open to the ideas on the left which really aren’t so bad after all.

    It’s a sad but true aspect of human nature to run from the things that we fear rather than towards the things that will make us happy.

24. The day after the speech Joe Barton was on Washington Journal and he explained that there was only one sentence in THE bill prohibiting health care being provided to illegals, AND that there wasn’t one single provision for enforcement. The host asked him about the fact that there will still be the constraint on ER’s to provide medical service to individuals who request service. Joe said, “Frama seatah sterus in the sterus framas. How do they always have such snappy comebacks?!

    BTW, would you buy a used car from Congressman Joe Barton, (R) Texas? And how would you like to have Congressman Mike Pence (R) Indiana for a stepfather? YIKESAMUNDO!

25. Sadly I read today that Senators Baucus and Conrad, nominal Dems, have decided that maybe they should be extra ‘bipartisan’ and give credence to the righties by offering to include citizenship checks to buy insurance. Gee guys, way to stand by the President, not to mention all the public health and public annoyance issues I mentioned earlier.

26. I’ve also been very perplexed by this “read the bill” line. I have yet to hear any of the righties back that up by pointing to a particular section of the bill that supports their paranoias. In fact, usually the opposite is the case (as in this one).

27. Joe “You Lie” Wilson Voted To Give Tax Dollars To Illegals For Health Care
    September 11th, 2009, 10:50 PM EDT

    http://www.alan.com/2009/09/11/joe-you-lie-wilson-voted-to-give-tax-dollars-to-illegals-for-health-care/

    The vote came on the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement and Modernization Act of 2003, which contained Sec. 1011 authorizing $250,000 annually between 2003 and 2008 for government reimbursements to hospitals who provide treatment for uninsured illegal immigrants. The program has been extended through 2009 and there is currently a bipartisan bill in Congress to make it permanent.

    And whether the anti-reform anti-immigrant crowd likes it or not, hospital emergency rooms will continue to be where they go for help. Are we going to deny medical care suffering people, many of whom work here and pay taxes?

    Hospitals have a legal obligation to treat everyone who comes in seeking care, regardless of citizenship status, insurance or other characteristics. This means that hospitals treat millions of people every year who don’t have the means to pay. Obviously, this drives up the nation’s healthcare costs overall. Section 1011 helps cushion the costs for hospitals, but it’s not nearly enough to cover the actual costs in most areas.

    Of course, Wilson was wrong, as are those who continue to claim that the health care bill allows taxpayer dollars to pay of illegal immigrants’ health care.

    H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

28. Man, I sure hope we don’t piss off the Mexicans to the point where they quit allowing our senior citizens to buy prescription drugs in the border towns.
    Keep yelling at the Mexicans stealing jobs and eating up health care, etc. Ye reap what ye sow, and you cant make up the truth.

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