Last night Ed Schulz interviewed Dan Gelber, a former Florida state senator. Gelber had been in the Florida legislature when the “stand your ground” law passed; he was one of the few senators who voted against it. He said that during the legislative session he asked repeatedly for the name of a single person in Florida who had been unfairly prosecuted for defending himself. And no one could produce such a person.
In other words, there was no wrong that needed to be remedied by the “stand your ground” law. Nothing was broke that needed to be fixed. “The NRA is a victim of their [own] success in that they have won all the major battles and look for these fringe issues now” Gelber said. “This was a solution in search of a problem.”
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Gail Collins said essentially the same thing in a column a few days ago.
There is nothing so dangerous as a lobbying organization that’s running out of stuff to lobby about.
I am thinking in particular of the National Rifle Association. These people are really in desperate straits. The state legislatures are almost all in session, but some of them have already pushed the gun-owner-rights issue about as far as it can go. You can only legalize carrying a concealed weapon in church once.
This year, in search of new worlds to conquer — or at least to arm — a couple of states are giving serious attention to bills that would allow gun owners to carry their concealed weapons in places like day-care centers and school buses.
People, do you think there is a loud public outcry for more guns on school buses? I truly believe that this is all the product of a desperate N.R.A., trying to show its base that there are still lots of new battles to be won.
On the other hand, a few hours after videos of then-Gov. Jeb Bush signing and endorsing the “stand your ground” law popped up on TeeVee and the web, Jebbie endorsed Mittens for president. Coincidence?
For example, see the Ed Show again, about 53 seconds into this clip:
Heh. Anyway — Lately we’ve seen several examples of the Right pushing too far and getting smacked for it. Susan G. Komen for the Fail is still smarting from its recent public humiliation. Several scheduled events have been postponed or canceled, and several executives have resigned.
It may be awhile before we get a clear picture of how much Rush Limbaugh hurt himself with his Sandra Fluke rant, but the Right remains in denial about what happened and is unlikely to moderate its behavior in the foreseeable future. Meanwhile, right-wing state legislatures continue to pass more and more ridiculously crazy anti-abortion laws, and in some place a backlash is well underway.
Political processes are broken and have failed to protect us from right-wing insanity, but it appears a lot of people are learning to fight back on their own. The Crazy may finally have exceeded its bounds.
I hope you are right; but there’s nothing automatic about the restoration of sanity. Meanwhile, watch and learn.
Why should the right ever moderate its behavior?
It has successfully, very successfully, been going apesh*t for decades.
And where are any, but a few short-term, major repurcussions?
None!
Instead, this behavior has done nothing but move the Overton Window in this nation far, far, to the right of where it was in, say, 1964, when Goldwater was, short of the John Birch extremists (now known as a key part of the Teabaggers), about as extreme to the right as you could get, and still be a fairly viable national candidate.
This has happened because of the elimination of “The Equal Time Rule.”
And Conservatives and corporations own AM/FM radio, they own most of the major newspapers (consolidated since the early-mid 90’s – with Bill Clinton’s approval). And almost all TV station in this country are corporate-owned.
And because of this, we have a lazy, compliant, and complicit MSM, who bend over backwards to prove that they’re not Liberal – and unless they categorically agree 100% with the Conservatives, are still painted as “too Liberal.”
They have absorbed the meme’s – since taking them apart and explaining their falsehood would require some intelligence, as well as some work. Why bother, when, if you play the meme game, you continue to move-up the MSM ladder? And to fight it, means potentially being marginalized, at best, or losing your lucrative career completely.
If anyone doesn’t think that the SJK v. PP abortion/birth-control fiasco will do anything to slow down their efforts, you are delusional.
And would it surprise anyone if, within a few weeks/months, some, or many, advertisers will go back to Rush?
Conservatives play not only to win, but to annihilate their opponents.
And they never, never forget.
An they never back down – though they may temporarily “backseat” an issue.
Want proof?
Never mind “Griswold” on birth control and privacy, and “Roe” on abortion – just take a look at what’s happening on the issue of “The Theory of Evolution” being taught in schools – in TN – in 2012, literally, “for Chrrist’s Sake!”
The “Scopes Monkey Trial” was in TN in 1925.
Remember – the state of TN won, though the verdict was eventually overthrown.
And they remember that, even though the then opponents of Evolution lost in ‘the court of public opinion.’
Where’s that public opinion NOW?
They never gave up. They bent that back in their favor.
And now, 87 years later, 87 YEARS!, they are still fighting against Darwin, logic, and science, and not just in TN, but in a lot of the other Idjit “Red States.”
So, maha, you know I love you, and the commenter’s here – but someone remind me again of why they would EVER moderate their behavior?
End of rant…
You’re missing the whole point. My premise is that they have reached the point of self-destruction. The fact that they aren’t learning from their mistakes tells me they are going to keep making them, and thereby marginalize themselves. I don’t think they will ever go away, but history shows us that they can be driven underground for periods of time.
Oh…
Whoooops! Sorry!
And here I was making that same point when I was referring to the “Scopes” trial.
Maybe I need to stop shaving my head.
When I had at least a little bit of hair on it, if something went over my head, I might absorb something in the process, or catch it on the rebound. 😉
D’OH!!!
gulag — some have said that Trayvon Martin may be to the NRA what Emmett Till was to Jim Crow. It may be a few years before we know if that’s true. But there are all kinds of examples of powerful people who went one step too far — Joe McCarthy comes to mind. Prohibition went too far by being enacted; it was a popular idea until people actually had to live with it.
The Taoists say that all success carries in it the seeds of its own destruction (and vice versa).
And, “Neeeeeever miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiind…”
OT – but I found this sort of funny, in an unfunny way:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/23/1077094/-Geraldo-Rivera-weighs-in-on-hoodies-and-proves-he-hasn-t-gotten-any-smarter
So, you Black and Hispanic kids, don’t wear a “hoodie” when you go out, or you’ll end up like women who go out in short skirts – only shot, instead of raped.
Apparently, to Conservatives, you are what you wear!
“Hoodies” = a “hood.”
And short skirts, or short-shorts = tramp, slut, street-walker.
In which case, I must still be a jock – since I mostly wear sweat pants in the winter, and shorts in the summer.
Only, if that’s the case, why is February a good time in the 40 yard dash for me nowadays?
I’ve just decided I need a new hoodie.
Sad times indeed when STUPID is the new norm. Why, I can remember back when I was a kid…
Oh, wait!
Conservatives measure their individualism through conformity. They are strictly a “One Size Fits All” movement insisting on My Way or the Highway. Certainly this is not the America we fought for back in the 70s.
Very sad indeed.
“Only, if that’s the case, why is February a good time in the 40 yard dash for me nowadays?”
Because Republicanism is all about PR, and not substance. How often have you seen the Republican leadership take both sides of the issue, and trash the Dems for meekly kind of supporting one side?
As I have said before, the libertarianist side of the Republican Party proletariat is all about maintaining or reverting to adolescence, fighting against dad and mom. They never actually mature because they never leave the breaking away stage – i.e., their parents never became any wiser as they grew older! They don’t want to become adult members of society because that would mean they need to take responsibility, and responsibility takes thought.
Big “C” Conservatives are all about following the powerful. They are Calvinist at heart (people get what they deserve, you are how you were born, there is no redemption). All correction (and thus learning) is based on punishment. This also is a group of people stuck in an even earlier stage of personal development (think 4-year-olds).
So, the best the Republicans have are stuck as adolescents, while their base is stuck in early childhood, more than willing to do whatever Mommy and Daddy tell them. I do believe these people are incapable of change so long as Mommy and Daddy persist in manipulating them in order to maintain their grip on power, and I do not see that changing any time soon (say, isn’t that a pretty good definition of “evil?:” ‘Using other people to your own end without regard to the harm done to them’).
End Rant.
maha,
From your mouth, to God’s/Godesses/FSM’s ears!
Maybe this will finally stop the NRA’s progress, and cause some push-back.
The NRA has been one of the most successful non-profit/marketing associations in history.
They’ve gotten pretty much everything they’ve wanted in the past 30+ years, with only a few set-backs like “The Brady Bill,” and the push against fully automatic weapons.
What’s left for them to market?
Bibles, or hymnals, you can bring to church with you, that have 45’s in them?
Or “Flintstone’s” lunch-boxes of “Bam-Bam,” with guns in them that are little enough so grade schooler’s can ‘Stand Their Ground’ when someone gives them a noogie, a purple-nurple, or a wedgie?
“BAM-BAM!”
I know – don’t give them any ideas…
I believe there comes a tipping point when a person or a group’s behavior becomes so egregious, people sit up and start to take notice. It wasn’t just defunding Planned Parenthood that sunk the Komen Foundation; that decision only lit the match. When supporters learned that only 20 to 23 cents of every $1 actually went to cancer research and the rest to salaries and lobbying, that’s when the flame met the fuse.
Add to this Komen’s aggressive marketing (am I the only one who was starting to hate the color pink?), its ties to the Republican Party, and– big oops– its decision to maybe keep funding Planned Parenthood after all, which then got even the anti-P.P. folks stomping mad. Komen was a top-heavy ship that sunk itself.
The NRA-sponsored “Stand your ground” law, went well beyond unnecessary and wondered off into flat-out stupid. People have always had the right of self-defense. That is simply not an issue. Never was. The thing that has changed is that in the past, people who felt threatened were expected to exercise some prudence and walk away–if possible. Under the new law, the exercise good judgement part has been eliminated. Beats me how anybody–even the NRA–could think this was a winning idea.
I have a couple of things;
If Zimmerman had touched Trayvon in an “inappropriate” way, he’d be wrapped in a chain and up to his elbows in Lake Monroe, surrounded by ‘gators (Sanford is on the shore of Lake Monroe, and I’ve seen ‘gators there damned near 16 ft long).
Somehow (NRA), using a gun is less offenseive than a sexual assault.
The other “thing” is Jeb Bush. I’ll not mince words; that FUCKER was the Governor of the State that handed his IDIOT brother the office of the presidency in a close race.( not to mention a Supreme Court stacked with cronies from Poppy’s reign)
If that ain’t the epitome of corruption, I don’t know what is.
And furthermore, he was one of the founders of the PNAC; a bunch of criminals who came up with “creative destruction”, and pushed for the war on Iraq.
In a SANE, fair world, Jebbie, George, Neil, Marvin and Poppy would all be breaking rocks on an island in San Francisco bay. But NOOOOOOOO…….
For your consideration..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGdRigFnsZQ&feature=player_embedded
Muldoon, you nailed it re Komen’s cascade of failure that only began with the PP-defunding revelation. I hope the NRA gets similar scrutiny, likewise the various so-called “right-to-life” organizations that think they own all the red-state legislatures around the nation. And I hope they all end up smelling equally foul in the nostrils of sane Americans.
In other words: sanctimonious fascist jerkwads, meet inevitable day of reckoning….
erinyes… ” Worst case of suicide I ever saw” ?
Swami, I seem to remember that line from my high school days……….
Political processes are broken and have failed to protect us from right-wing insanity
Amen, Maha….I see where Rick Sanctorum was blowing off a few rounds at a range in Louisiana during his presidential” campaign. I also heard that one of the spectators screamed out.. “Pretend it’s Obama ” . Sanctorum didn’t hear the shutout, but when informed of the incident, Ricky said, “that’s absurd,I’m not shooting at anybody.” Seems Ricky is not familiar enough with firing a weapon that he understands the difference between a standard bullseye target and silhouette target that’s representaive of shooting a human being.
OT – but it’s friday. What the hell. I think Ezra Klien hit it out of the park here. Must read.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/ten-miles-square/2012/03/ryan_plan_may_lead_to_singlepa036219.php
C U N D… I look at it a little different. I recall the days when “Donahue” was still the day time talk show( stay with me, I know I am old) . Phil wanted to have the kkk on his show. Well all the good moral people were all outraged that he would give them a voice on national TV.(And I suppose the kkk wannabes were at home in their white sheets waiting for their moment to “shine”). Oh my goodness how they railed against good old Phil. Many people wanted to hold on to their hate and I think they were afraid if it was exposed to the world they would be forced to grow the hell up. And I think alot of people think the “good old boys” network worked better when it was just a wink and a nod thing. Like a un spoken understanding. I recall the black hating foster family I lived with were angry as hell at Phil ” He is just stirring up trouble” He is trying to make the blacks angry and trying to fuel a race war”(“blacks” is my word, their word was not as nice). There was even talk that he had gone too far and that he should be removed from the air. If I recall correctly some markets refused to even air that show.
But then a beautiful thing happened. Phil aired his show. No race riots, no society crumbled. What happened that day marked the start of change. I saw it happen with my own eyes. And when I think about it still today I get kinda misty.. cause I am a nerd that way.
So here is what happened. The white sheets and their fans thought victory would be theirs on that day, that once the rest heard their points of view we would all be kkkonverts(snark). That they had already won some grand prize by getting to speak. But oh boy, how wrong that went.
They made complete asses of themselves. At one point Phil ended up asking them where they got their clothes and people made FUN OF THEM as they sat their in their big ole pointy hats. They had to confess they had their wives make them and they were not amused at being made fun of. Their outfits had instilled fear for so long in the dark of night and once Phil shined the bright light on them their outfits were not so scarey.. as a matter of fact they were totally laughable.. And an entire crowd of people laughing proved it.
But even greater was their message( the outfits were only a side note I couldnt resist adding because they make such a major statement about the day as a whole). Now I am sure the faithful watched that day and yelled “white power!” at the tv every time their prophet spoke and felt vindicated(the normal reaction of a clueless idiot) But to the majority of people – even someone who may have been on the fence dealing with their own racial issues- you could see the disgust in their eyes. At themselves, at others ideas about race. Some people spoke truth to that but even greater were the ones who didnt speak, because their expressions spoke so much louder. Once someone said it out loud, once they actually heard it out loud you could see it changed the way many people felt- right away. And I think the impact started a change within everyone who was witness to it. People were at once ashamed of being behind this group( they looked like todays dillusional meth heads to me) and those who feared them feared them a lot less. They looked like the bunch of simple shit wanna be red neck idiots that are and it was f’ing beautiful. A bunch of white people who thought the big bad mystery klan would have their back if the shit went down found out that day their great white hope were great white hacks.It was priceless. Even as a kid i recognized it and it made me feel more empowered then I ever have in my life(i should mention I am white?) It proved to me that all along I was right in how I felt about race and the racist foster family I had was so wrong. It changed my life.It certainly shaped it.
Look at how far we have come since that day! The kkk.. yeah… LOL they are still there but they have no power. They are played out and are only impressive to a bunch of small town meth cookers. If they tried to burn a cross in my mostly white neighborhood they would get their asses kicked and be hauled off to jail.Now we have a million miles to go but just look where we are as a result of the good of the light being shone on a bunch of cockaroaches.
So yeah, lets get current,, this time it isnt about race, but it is still about hate. It’s still about the “good old boys” – it’s just another group. But shining a light on a cockaroach is a good thing. You can tell people what this group is all about till your blue in the face but until they are exposed to the world for what they are really all about nothing can change. And it wont happen fast. But it can happen. Once people hear what they really think this will become another group of good ole boys who are a meaningless national disgrace.Same thing applies.. all you really gotta do is sit back and let them open their mouths.
Oh and in case my other comment doesnt make it thru moderation…I love my Hoodies!
justme277,
That’s a great story.
And Phil always had real cojones – no matter how often he was painted by the right as a Liberal wuss. Questioning “Baby Doc” Bush & Co. on their Iraq adventure cost him his job at MSNBC – even though his show was the highest rated one on the network.
The problem is, that the powers that be in the Republican Party, now openly depend on those haters you mentioned, as their “base.”
They’ve given people with KKK-like beliefs a lot of media training. Or, if they didn’t giveit to them, the haters were certainly savvy enough to realize that a bunch of red-neck yahoo’s, sitting around in robes and hats handmade by the their little ladies, and expousing openly hateful speech on national TV, was not the way to gain greater acceptance. So, they learned from that appearance on Donohue.
David Duke was one of the first media-savvy haters of his generation – and the rest have learned from him. They no longer scream “N*GGER!”, instead, they use code-word and phrase things in “dog-whistle.”
The most frightening thing to me is, that what was ‘abnormally right-wing’ even 10-20 years ago, is now mainstream.
If people go to talk radio, they hear almost nothing but right-wing hate shows.
If people turn to MOX News, all they hear is pre-approved propaganda.
If they turn to CNN, they get insipid news coverage, and he-said/she-said equivocation.
Only MSNBC, in the evenings and weekend mornings, gives a more Liberal view. But then, there’s the rest of their schedule…
Today’s haters are little different from yesterdays haters. They have the same beliefs. But now, they wear suits and ties instead of robes and hoods. And they target the hatred to specific audiences who will be receptive to that hate.
The people who think like those KKK folks you talked about, are still on TV. They just don’t look like they’re from the KKK. But, they’re still trying to ‘mainstream’ their hate-filled messages of racism, misogyny, xenophobie, and homophobia.
My hope, is that, like maha said above, some people are starting to view the Martin shooting in the same context as the killing of Emmett Till.
And if Martin’s death is to mean anything, hopefully people will realize that they need to look at things and people a little differently. That the haters, now, have infiltrated the military and the police in this country. And that the smarter local foaming-at-the-mouth yahoo’s, have transformed themselves into politicians, or radio/TV hosts, or regular guests, with tailor-made suits, pearly-white, implanted teeth, and coiffed hair – or, the nice policeman/fireman/insurance salesman who’s your neighbor.
Until people realize that evil and hate have been mainstreamed, and and to what extent, and realize that they need to be very careful who they watch, or listen to, or read, we will continue in our march towards a very scary, dystopian future.