According to the Washington Post, George Zimmerman will be charged with something regarding Trayvon Martin’s death. We should know what in a couple of hours.
Update: They are saying on the teevee that Zimmerman has been taken into custody.
Update: It’s second degree murder. Outstanding!
With what?
“Discharging a firearm in a residential neighborhood?”
Or, “Failure to give a good account of himself?”
Btw – I’ve been guilty of the last one my whole life!
Man slaughter or aggravated battery on a minor. I don’t know. It seems to me that Travon’s age should be considered.
I’m staying on the shores of lake Monroe tonight, just across the St John river.
I hope all hell won’t break loose; there are extremists on both sides.
I watched the interview with the prosecutor. She impressed me quite favorably. The Sanford PD may have handed her a weak case, but I think she will pursue it aggressively. IMO, 2nd degree is appropriate – 1st degree would be nearly impossible as there was no indication of premeditated intent. What can the prosecution prove and what will the jury find? We don’t know.
It is in the courts – it will go to a jury -and for that I am thankful.
Doug — Yes, I watched the prosecutor also, and I feel reassured that the case is in good hands. I think 2nd degree murder is the toughest charge she could have made, so I hope this soothes people a bit. The righties are going to be pissed, though.
The righties may be pissed BUT if it was a black man shooting a 17 yo white teen, they would be pissed because it was not a charge of 1st degree murder.
With out me following this real close, I think your post on the Seattle P-I time line speaks volumes about who did what.
It is in the courts – it will go to a jury -and for that I am thankful.
My sentiment exactly, Doug.
“The righties are going to be pissed, though”
I still don’t quite understand why, except for that whole tribal thing I guess. I just keep thinking: how could anyone not see that had Zimmerman left that kid alone nothing would have happened? Travon wasn’t committing a crime? I don’t get it. Maybe Al Sharpton should come out in favor of the war in Afganistan, maybe then we could get the righties to support an end to the war? Maybe he could support tax cuts for the riich, an end to the EPA, prayer in schools…………
I’m pretty happy with it too,a fair trial will go a long way.
Florida, the “gunshine” state.
erinyes …LOL the gunshine state…Maybe we should change the state motto.
Bring back..Arrive Alive? just keep your head down!
Sanford is just up the road from Disney World, and i hear the Magic Kingdom will be offering kelvar vests for rent to guests who venture off the Enchanted Mouse Plantation.
uncledad…That’s a good idea about Reverend Al..I still find him a little hard to take..I quess it’s because of his Twanna Brawley days..Kinda adds credence to the expression.. “You never get a second chance to make a first impression”.
Funny, Swami, I have exactly the same problem with Sharpton that you have. I read the book done by one of the detectives after it was all over. Brawley’s lies and Sharpton’s refusal to step one inch back from his persecution/prosecution of innocent men added up to a real disaster. At the same time, I have to ask myself how many black people were railroaded by a white power structure that pulled the same thing on innocent black people. If this country cannot just accept the principle of equal justice under the law, including investigation and prosecution, as well as formulation of laws without creating favored classes, then we will continue to have these controversies. This does not need to happen. I hope we are not all Sanford.
“I still find him a little hard to take”
I agree fully, I think he is little more than an ambulance chaser, he just so happens to be on the right side of this issue and he drives the wing-nuts f%cking crazy, it’s fun to watch. He did the Martin family some good by shinning a bright light on this case but they’d be wise to distance themselves from him now that charges have been brought.
I assume that they figure that there’s no way Zimmerman could *possibly* be lying about Martin attacking him. But that should be determined by forensics, if possible.
They may also be upset because Zimmerman being an aggressive neighborhood watch could have been a decent thing, if he wasn’t the kind of damn fool who shoots and kills an unarmed teenager.
But tribalism is a very powerful force. That plays a role, with some people, I’m sure.
Yes, I’m happy it’s in the courts, and that it’s 2nd Degree Murder.
Now, after all the publicity, especially after Zimmerman went on the lam, where do you find jurors? In a mushroom patch?
On Rev. Al, I think he’s changed.
Tawana went to my HS, 10 years after me.
I was in NYC when the incident happened, and thought her story was plausible, at first, because I grew-up here – or, at least from age 11-23, when I moved back to NYC. But, after more and more came out, and especially after the young cop killed himself – I played softball a few time with him, I started to realize that her story was BS. I couldn’t stand Sharpton for a long time, thinking he was a hustler out to make his “bones.”
But over the past 10-15 years, I think he’s matured, and has been on the right side of issues. He’s still a media hound, but a more polished one.
So, while I don’t love him, I have come around in my thinking. Now, unlike before, he does more good than harm. I’ve watched his MSNBC show, and I think he’s pretty good. He gives a perspective no one else on TV does. He is, though, a convenient person for the right to attack, due to his past actions. But, that’s HIS cross to bear, not mine. Like I said – right now, he does more good than harm.
I feel the same as ‘Gulag about Rev. Al.
Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Gloria Allred fall into a certain category.
They seem to barge into the scene and hog attention- but as they have matured, I realize they have their causes, and actually are positive in the big picture.
Lately, I’ve been skipping Sharpton’s show for John Stewart and Colbert.
I usually watch the political shows up ’till 9pm, burning out by the time Rachel Maddow’s show comes on. I really like her, but I’m burned out on politics by then, and my wife is also ready for a change.
Was in Orlando yesterday which is a suburb of Sanford (snark) so feel as if I should take complete responsibility for the arrest. Second-degree sounded about right. As per Rev. Al, I was never much of a fan, even after he lost all of the weight. But I’m not convinced that the arrest would have happened if Al and Jesse and the gang had not jumped on and hyped this. Its been a month and a half since the shooting and Zimmerman is just now getting arrested. If no one makes a scene, does he still get arrested. I’m not convinced that he does.
But the people that complain about Al and Jesse running in front of any camera when it’s got the red light on, ignore the myriad of righties that do the same thing. If you wanted to really impact race relations, some white spokesmen should have stood up and be in the place where Rev. Al and Jesse were screaming saying that this shooting and non-arrest were not ok. Where were all the white preachers? White politicians? Crickets.
The Rev. Al has mellowed in his old age, I have to say. He used to annoy the stuffing out of me, but he’s toned himself down quite a bit. He was actually impressive on television last night, if you missed him.
I think it’s a very risky strategy to overcharge in this case. Going for voluntary manslaughter would relieve the state from the burden of disproving Zimmerman’s claim that he acted in self-defense. Under Florida law, even if one acts in self-defense, to use excessive force under the circumstances is voluntary manslaughter. The SYG statute does not purport to change this. The state can make a very strong showing that Zimmerman knew or should have known that Trayvon was unarmed (given that he was defending himself with his bare hands alone), and that he could have avoided serious harm at the hands of his smaller, unarmed opponent without gunning him down. Also, the absence of a legal duty to retreat does not mean that it is never what the proverbial “reasonable person” ought to do given the particular circumstances. Zimmerman may not have had a specific duty to retreat, but that is not a license to act unreasonably.
stratlayer — according to what I’ve heard from the bobbleheads, the jury could split the difference between 2nd degree murder and acquittal and find Zimmerman guilty of manslaughter. So aiming high, so to speak, may prove to be a smart move on the prosecution’s part. I think this prosecutor knows the law as well as anyone, and also has access to evidence not yet made public, so I’m not inclined to second guess her.
maha,
The fact that she decided to go with murder 2 does indicate to me that Zimmerman doesn’t have the evidence to back up his claim that Martin was whaling the tar out of him at the time of the shooting; e.g., photos, medical reports, etc. Even in that case, however, going straight for voluntary manslaughter instead of murder 2 might still be the better strategy. I believe the public interest would be best served by a conviction that instructs the public that acting in self-defense does not give one carte blanche to use the maximum degree of force no matter what the circumstances. The problem with SYG isn’t that it encourages people to defend themselves. It’s that it encourages people to use unreasonable force in the act of self-defense. Judges need to step in and interpret the SYG statute not in a vacuum but in the context of the whole of Florida law governing self-defense.
stratplayer — What I’m reading is that before the trial a magistrate will decide if the SYG defense is warranted, in which case the trial is canceled. The prosecution may appeal, of course. If the case goes to trial, SYG isn’t supposed to play that large a part of it. So the trial isn’t likely to feature SYG no matter what the charge is.
Again, this prosecutor has access to evidence that hasn’t been made public. If this were a poker game, we haven’t seen her cards yet. She may be sitting on a full house we don’t know about. And again, the jury can still bring a manslaughter verdict even if the charge is murder 2, so failure to win the murder 2 verdict doesn’t necessarily mean acquittal.
The prosecutor also has a lot of experience in these matters. and IMO unless you have a law degree and experience trying homicides it’s a waste of time to second guess her. Let’s just wait and see what happens.
What I’m trying to say is that I see this case as a golden opportunity to judicially gut Florida’s SYG law and getting a conviction while essentially conceding the claim of self-defense would go a long way toward accomplishing this end.
Actually, I’ve been a criminal appellate attorney for the last 14 of the 25 years I’ve been practicing law, so it’s my job to research and analyze cases to an obsessive degree.
stratplayer — if you say so. But then you ought to know better than to make predictions without knowing what evidence the prosecution has that we don’t know about. Give it a rest.
Every once in a while I’ll be looking at old photographs of myself back in the day. I see myself wearing plaid bell bottoms,saddle shoes,oversized( Carlson Tucker/Tucker Carlson style) bow ties, and sporting a fu man choo moustashe*..I cringe to think I thought I was the cat’s meow at the time, and wonder what got into me…I wonder if Al Sharpton has the same feelings when he looks back on old photos of himself..If he doesn’t cringe..he should.
* Pastor Terry Jones
Here’s an interesting story..It has the same repug elements of Sen. Jon Kyle’s statement about not being intended to be factual..Don’t let facts get in the way of pushing an NRA agenda, huh.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/article1225164.ece