46 thoughts on “The Debate

  1. At times like these, I realize how nice it is to be disconnected and out in the sticks. I awoke in the middle of the night thinking about the flood of campaign advertisements that invade peoples’ lives. During the last campaign, the ads were everywhere on youtube and sufficiently targeted that I had to watch helplessly as Thom Tillis’ intruded with a relentless, insistent PR barrage. In a better world the ad campaign would have been dismissed. It was so abrasive and appalling, that for a few days, I was convinced that the effect would be negative, especially among the tech savvy youtubists.

    I had forgotten where I was, and the rest is history.

    Maybe I am too much of a delicate flower, but there is something about the raw display of ignorance that induces despair and dysphoria. There is an unnerving absurdity about it that seems to be mixed from various sources, from Satre to Mad Max. It unfolds in repetitive slow motion, “like a madman shakes a dead geranium.”

    So, in short, I didn’t see the debates, but, I did get back to sleep. It was the fitful sleep of 21st century democracy.

  2. I am thankfully unconnected to my cable tv provider. It is a freedom of choice lifestyle that makes me very happy. Even if I had it, there is no way that I’d commit to spending more than ten seconds with any of those jerks.

    It’s enough that I can read and lately a lot of that has become excessively miserable. You are truly blessed to be denied the TV, Maha. It’s just another drug that we take to way too enthusiastically.

  3. I missed them.
    On purpose.

    None of them is Presidential.
    All of them are scary and stupid.

  4. Yes, goatheard and stella, and maha…I recently cut the cord as well…It is really different…yet I feel that I have lost nothing of value…The constant bombardment of the propaganda machine was overwhelming me as well…I cannot believe what our politics has devolved into…I refuse to use up what is left of my brain cells on these people…they want to hurt us and America…simple…nothing wasted on useless gop talking points…

  5. I didn’t watch either (low on blood pressure meds), but let me guess: Trump insulted, Bush waffled, Walker lied, Cruz exaggerated, Christie threatened, Paul whined, Rubio gulped, Huckabuck scolded, Kasich looked normal, who did I forget? Oh yes Ben Carson, who cares!

  6. I didn’t watch. I went to my unitive self meeting and we discussed meditation. Got rid of cable TV over a year ago for many reasons: the cost, the habit I had of turning it on at certain times of the day, the fact that I was paying for a bunch of channels I had no interest in and the commercials. I became convinced that it fosters a short attention span. I say that because one might get interested in a show for about ten minutes then they take a break which breaks concentration and it goes on like that throughout no matter what kind of show or channel. What does one do during the commercial breaks, maybe mute the TV, just sit there, take a bathroom break. Not enough time to get into doing something else so it is just wasted time. Just give me a good book and I’m happy. And if one watches those ads day in, day out, the same ones over and over, it’s programming the mind. Of course, that is the intention. So I miss some things like C-Span, PBS, some specials and the old movie channel. But otherwise, I do not regret canceling the service. I can catch the highlights today on my computer.

  7. Stella, Robert, Grannyeagle —

    Your experiences parallel mine. Many years ago, my old black and white TV broke and I never repaired or replaced it for over seven years. It just never seemed worth it, aside from the fact that in Tampa, I had gotten used to periodic burglaries. In a stroke of luck, pretty soon, some poor unsuspecting soul broke into my house and carted it off. I felt relieved.

    One striking phenomenon was that after a few months, if I was around a TV, the medium barely made sense to me, it seemed disjointed and nonsensical. Moreover, it like a waste of time to try to make sense of it.

    When my father-in-law lived here, he bought satellite service, and we kept it for a while after he passed away. But, I felt just like Grannyeagle wrote. I was wasting money and time and it seemed to be made for people with ADD.

    This time around it’s going on fourteen years. We’re watching DVDs and youtube, but far less than the national average. If I get stuck in a waiting room or some public place where TV is inflicted on the public, it reminds me just how toxic it is.

    At least on youtube you can get BBC Documentaries, music and language lessons, and other things that you actually choose to watch.

    But, as Stella wrote, it’s just a lifestyle choice. So many people are threatened or insulted if it comes out that you don’t like TV, some people take it personally and they’ll call you an elitist. That comes with the territory. But, as I have written before, my neighbors are all fundamentalist Christians, they live simply, and NONE of them have TV. I don’t think anyone would say that they are elitist.

  8. Krugman sums up the GOP debate field perfectly:

    “Judge them by positions as opposed to image, and what you have is a lineup of cranks. And as I said, this is no accident”

  9. Didn’t watch, but listened to a bunch of analyses.

    The thing about Republicans, besides the fact that they are or choose to self-represent as stupid (to please their base and their corporate masters); they don’t even focus on real problems. They focus on things like illegal immigration and ISIL. These are not even on the top 10 list of concerns for most Americans. Climate change, guns, education, poverty, healthcare, trade, infrastructure — these are all much bigger deals to anybody actually living in the U.S. And they are ALL issues where the GOP obstructs rather than leads.

  10. I didn’t watch. Turner Classic Movies was running Katherine Hepburn movies all day; and, they were so far and above the quality that any political debate could offer. And, isn’t the election NEXT November not this November?! I would like to make the comment that regarding Mr. Trump and his views of Rosie O’Donnell and other women who are fat and disgusting: Take a look in a mirror Trump! You are pretty fat these days, complete with two or three chins. And, he is pretty disgusting. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black . . .

  11. I imagine that we would all feel guiltier for shirking our democratic duty to weigh both sides in the balance, if we hadn’t lived through decades of wedge issues and misinformation. The packaging is pretty repulsive too, as Tom said..

    On the other hand, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are a breath of fresh air. To my ears, they talk directly and honestly to the issues, classic “straight talkers.” It’s hard for me to imagine that there are people who feel the same way about Huckabee or Trump. But, it takes all kinds to make a world.

    Thanks for pointing out the Krugman article, Uncle “D.”

  12. Gave up my TV twenty years ago. S’been very nice. Did start to listen last night, fell asleep fairly quickly. Woke at moments within, and at the end. i think the thing is, for me, that I love politics, but don’t like politicians. . . .

    And Tom’s right: what they want to talk about, big scary scenarios, pleases their base, but is pointless.

    Spent a fairly surreal weekend a bit ago, when my ex came with my kid for a work weekend. Listening to him repeating Faux memes was odd: he’s a member of the 1%, and does very well on the stock market. He actually knows better, but feels comfortable passing on O’Reilly’s view of the universe without parsing.

  13. I didn’t watch. I wanted to, but I can’t seem to stay awake past 10 on a school night. I have a sleep disorder that was a threat to my wife’s existence, so she hauled me off to a sleep clinic several years ago, now I take a little blue pill ( not THAT one) every night, and it’s usually lights out until 4:30 or 5 am. I do have some pretty cool dreams now. One keeps popping up where I own a huge mansion. One room is gigantic, with a very large painting, but the friggin’ place is haunted, and we have to move out.
    Anybody know what that’s all about ?
    Anyway, one of my neighbors (who is suffering from a whole menu of physical and mental disorders) watched it, and said Trump “Trumped” it. I guess he was the biggest dick. Lawd a mercy !

  14. Anybody know what that’s all about ?

    Erinyes, try two little blue pills I’m sure all your questions will be answered!

  15. I did watch, but I’m crazy. Megyn Kelly asked if anyone on the stage would NOT commit to supporting the eventual nominee. Trump took the bait. SO the threat of a third party run is out there. Trump is playing power politics. He claims the right to destroy the GOP chances unless he is the nominee. He will be rude and boorish and stands no chance of winning in the general election because he’s making too many enemies. (Note that Obama’s rivals, Clinton & Biden became his allies after he won.) I am not sure if anyone on the stage would consent to work for Trump. (And that is how Trump would view the relationship.)

    Bush looked awful. He was practiced at looking relaxed, but he didn’t have any intensity or demonstrate anything beyond a few pat and rehearsed answers. Most of the field looked well-rehearsed and poorly prepared. Rand Paul was the exception and so was Kasich. I’m not planning to vote for either of them but they were coherent. (Rand Paul questioned the strategy of arming the world when those weapons will be used against American soldiers.)

    Ted Cruz did poorly – Chris Christie looked like a fat bully. Huckabee is a one-trick pony pitching to the anti-abortion crowd. Some see Rubio as a conservative JFK, good-looking so women will vote for him. I’m the wrong gender to sense the appeal. Doctor Tom claimed to have a brain but never proved it. Scott Walker is going to suck up much of the support of lame candidates as they drop out. Those who don’t like Walker may go with Bush. That’s the three-way I predict and how long they can split the states is tough to guess. Bush raised a lot of cash – Trump can self-fund – Walker may have a blank check from the Koch Bros. This could go on for a while. If it goes to the convention, all forces will unite against Trump. He doesn’t take rejection well.

    Pass the popcorn.

  16. Erinyes, we all live in that giant mansion (the USA), and are haunted by our past and present mistakes. Just do your best, and try not to worry about moving out. Maybe we can stay for a while.

    BTW, what is that pill?

  17. Well, Donald made still more stupid and misogynistic comments, this time about FOX’s Kelly yesterday.

    Now, I’m no great fan of hers at all, but this was way over the line.
    I think this will piss-off Rupe and Roger.

    I’m hoping that Chump eventually runs 3rd Party. That will hopefully insure a Democratic Presidential win.

  18. Erinyes, I think the traditional view of “house dreams” is that the house represents your state of mind. You are wandering around in your subconscious self. It’s similar to the old “house of memory,” in that things are stored in hidden places and revealed both by what you see and by how you feel.

    It’s been decades since I’ve had a “flying dream.” But, I find house dreams next in line as the most pleasant. It seems like they usually hold some surprises, like suddenly you open a door and find a new floor with rooms that you don’t quite remember seeing before or a passageway that leads to some unexpected place. My house dreams usually have a touch of quotidian problems, usually a section of the house where I haven’t been for a while with a leaking roof. I think that’s a standard feature.

    They are so subjective that you just have to let them be. You can gather the images and the feelings. If they make you feel uneasy, then something may be haunting you, but usually there’s a mix of anxiety and discovery, just like real life. That’s the bargain we’ve made, one moment you’re part of something beautiful and the next you’re patching a roof. I guess the trick is to be content at both times. Enjoy patching the roof as much as you can and stay in the moment. After the roof is done you may meet your ghost or see something astonishing.

  19. Erinyes: I will throw my 2 cents worth of dream diagnosis in with the others. I have a book of dream images and symbols. MANSION: Corresponds to a big idea, a large project, one’s ego, the truth about oneself, or what one thinks of oneself. ROOM: Often represents aspects of one’s own self. Couldn’t find painting so looked up ART: Relates to one’s creative ability or untapped potential. Associated with creative self-expression. Couldn’t find haunt so looked up GHOST: Often corresponds to one’s fears, thoughts, the past or that which keeps haunting you. So keeping in mind that I am not an expert, here is what I think. You have some huge, large, gigantic urge of creative possibility that you are not allowing to be expressed because of some fears, memories or something. So I think the solution is not another little pill but to face those fears that are haunting you and get rid of them in order to release the creativeness that you obviously need to express or you wouldn’t keep dreaming about it. Recurring dreams are very important and Edgar Cayce says our dreams are our subconscious talking to us. You don’t have to move out, just get rid of the ghosts. Also, Cayce says to keep a dream journal and that you yourself are the best one to interpret your dreams. Symbols mean different things to different people so one guideline I use is to be aware of the emotion I experience in the dream. For example, some people have a fear of snakes so when they dream about them, it’s a negative emotion. I have no fear of snakes and see them as a symbol of wisdom so if I would have a dream of snakes, I would view it as positive. Happy painting!!!

  20. Erinyes, you recently related that you had surgery for a mass behind one of your eyes. I gather that your prognosis is good, but that might be your ghost, a residual sense that something unseen was there.

    In the end, you know best of course.

  21. “Now, I’m no great fan of hers at all, but this was way over the line”

    Gulag, come on? I say she got it coming, the bleach blonde bobble-heads at FAUX have been lowering the discourse right along with the wing-nuts, O’Reilly, Hannity, etc, they got it coming.None of them had a problem when Donald was calling other women pigs, dogs, fat slobs, those women were not wingnuts and the bottle blonde bobbleheads never said a word.

  22. uncledad,
    My point was that she’s the adored blond woman at (DUMB)FUX “news.”

    Sure, she’s a female version of a “Judas-Goat.”

    But, she’s a very, very attractive version of one!

  23. “But, she’s a very, very attractive version of one”

    Not once she opens her pie-hole, she’s just as ugly as Trump!

  24. Thanks for the dream info.I do have several creative projects in the works, and I’m a bit frustrated that I get sidetracked, and am having a hard time completing them.I am a bit concerned about running out of time, I need to squeak out about 15 more productive years. The mass behind my eye turned out to be residual blood from some burst capillaries; I was trying to recapture my youth with intensive work outs and inversion therapy.The doctor says no more hanging and doing upside down crunches. so, there is no anxiety over that chapter, thank goodness. That little blue pill is a mild narcotic, low dose, used to treat my REM sleep disorder. I was having this dream for some time before I went on the little blue pill.
    I didn’t intend to pig the thread with my stuff, but thanks for the input.

  25. Good one, Uncledad. I suppose the Easter bunny is black too ? NO!!!! he is white, white, white ! It’s a verifiable fact ! (BTW, I’m kinda sure Jesus was a Semitic Jew. They tend to have an olive complections.) But who knows. Fox Bunnies come in several colors, all spew the same venom.

  26. Ahem. (clearing throat) People. I’m disappointed in remarks from people who denounced insulting sexist comments when made by Limbaugh attacking a liberal woman – but those same commentators here seem happy with sexist remarks by Trump when directed at a conservative media figure.

    Objectivity means you object to the wrong without prejudice. Sexism is wrong. Trump has a right to refute the question or question the motives of the interviewer or attack the entire FOX network if he desires. Making sexist remarks is out of bounds regardless of who the target of the comments is.

  27. “but those same commentators here seem happy with sexist remarks by Trump when directed at a conservative media figure”

    I assume you mean me, which is fine and I somewhat agree with a caveat or two. My point is Trump’s latest target (FAUX news bobblehead) had no problem when he was trashing women, in fact the entire network lineup have interviewed “the Donald” countless times on just about every FAUX show and never really questioned in any meaningful manner either his racist or sexist comments. They wait until a National hyped and televised debate to “take him down” using the only female moderator, the whole thing was staged obviously? I’m not defending any of what he said but when a bully gets bullied then so be it, they have it coming!

  28. I think Hillary said to Trump, “Please troll the GOP, then run as a third party.”
    And Trump said, “Sure, but you’ll owe me.”

  29. So it begins. And we’ve got more than a year to go through this. I really hope Trump gets pissed off at the Republicans and runs as a third party. He will probably be the only one that belongs to it though. It would just make the whole fiasco more enjoyable. However, I don’t believe he is serious about seeing this through no matter his big ego.

  30. Trump gets backlash for slamming TV host popular with GOP
    – Associated Press

    Not for being a jerk, not for ripping on women, not for policy issues, but for “slamming TV host popular with GOP.”

    Even for the Republican proletariat, this is a new low.

  31. When what’s-er-name from Fox hit Trump with the “misogynist insults” question, his first reply in defense was “I was talking about Rosie O’donell.” How does that excuse the ad hominem? His answer was much more insulting and incriminating than the insult. Apparently Whats-er-name and everyone else on the dais and at Fox thinks this is fine. Only the kool pretty kids are off limits. I agree with Uncle Dad. When Bullies get bullied they will find no quarter with me.

  32. OK. Let’s look at a serious problem in America we can agree on and see what it says about mysogony. Suppose the cops has a person on the ground – subdued and cuffed. Under what circumstances can they beat the suspect, use a tazer, or break his spine? I think we would all agree, once a suspect is under control there is NO excuse for brutalizing the suspect.

    Over and over, when a suspect, particularly a suspect of color, dies in police custody, the right-wing machine goes into overdrive to make the suspect a ‘thug’. Because if he’s been arrested, or if they think he bought skittles to make drugs, or if they can claim he was once seen with someone who has been photographed with a terrorist – then it’s OK for him to die in police custody. He’s a thug.

    Meygan Kelly may have made 100 stupid remarks on live TV. She may have spouted off obvious falsehoods or displayed racial or religious bias. Or maybe she hasn’t and that’s the left-wing propaganda machine. It doesn’t matter. There’s NO justification at all for sexist attacks and there’s no justification for the reasoning that ‘She had it coming.’

    (Isn’t that what they say in cases of rape if the victim is liberal or attractive or of color?)

    BTW, I didn’t accuse anyone and my comment wasn’t a personal attack. I’m too old for flaming wars particularly with old friends.

    I thought I had cleared up all my ethical issues decades ago, but I still discover the occasional ethical dust bunny – a prejudice or bias – that doesn’t belong in the perfect world I wish I lived in.

  33. “BTW, I didn’t accuse anyone and my comment wasn’t a personal attack”

    I figured you were responding to my comment, and I did not take it as an attack, I thought it was a thoughtful comment with plenty of merit. I agree that misogyny is wrong all the time and should never be condoned. It’s just a little hard for me to go along with the “conservative media figure as victim routine” it’s get played so much I find it tough to take. I really think that if Andrea Mitchell or Gwen Ifill were at the brunt of Trump’s misogyny it wouldn’t even be a story and the folks at FAUX (blonde bobbleheads included) would probably be defending him. and Anyway I took no offense to your comment Doug, just having a conversation!

  34. BTW: I forgot to mention that I do not find Marco Rubio handsome, attractive or even cute.
    He has zero sex appeal. Sort of like a Ken doll. Or a robot. Wind him up and he will perform.

  35. We’ve been wandering about a lot in this thread and it’s been fun.

    You know, Granny, as I get older, young people look different to me. I am a big fan of Michael Wood. I think I discovered him back in ’85 with a series that he did on the Trojan War. He’s done a lot of documentaries, and now I am used to his face as a sixty-ish man, a few wrinkles, still a good head of hair. The other day I stumbled across an episode of “In Search of the Trojan War.” I hardly recognized him. His face looked young, but, sort of blank, as if it weren’t quite finished.

    Maybe our faces do acquire character as we age. Surely, our concept of beauty changes to appreciate the history of a face more than other attributes. So, people like Marco Rubio are pleasant enough, but like an unripe fruit. It’s too early to appreciate them.

    This is an issue entirely separate from any political evaluation. The passengers in the clown car all seem to mix, incompetence, bigotry and anger in different ratios. But, whatever the formula, the result is dangerous.

  36. “Politicians and diapers have one thing in common. They should both be changed regularly, and for the same reason.”

    — Jose Maria de Eca de Queiroz

  37. grannyeagle …You should check me out…I make Adonis look like a toad. I’m beauty incarnate… And humble to a fault.

  38. Goatherd: I certainly agree, as people age, faces change. They reflect the experience of the individual. Some people do not age well. I once took a class on Chinese face reading. The instructor was taught by her Chinese grandmother whom she said studied the faces of all her boyfriends. Although I am not an expert, I have been paying attention to faces and also body language. That is why I like to watch speeches and debates instead of just reading the script of what was said. One trick I use is to look at one side of the face separately. It is amazing what you can see. Take Rick Santorum. The right side of his face looks fairly normal. However when you block off the right and focus just on the left, the look is of a crazed person. It’s in the eyes. Try it. Perhaps you have noticed that women who have had a lot of plastic surgery on their face (Joan Rivers or Jane Fonda) do have a “plastic” look. As much as we groan about wrinkles, they show character and where we’ve been. One of my favorite faces is Willie Nelson. Talk about wrinkles and not only on his face. But to me he is beautiful and he definitely has sex appeal. True, Rubio is still young and hopefully has a lot of experience left in his life and darker skinned people do not show wrinkles as badly as white people like me with my Scotch/Irish ancestry. So I cannot say exactly what it is that I see except it is the spirit that shines through and it is seen especially in the eyes. Eyes are called the “window of the soul” and I believe it. Do you know that the eyeball is the only part of the body that never grows, it is full-size in newborns. I find that fascinating. I also wonder what babies see before their brains are programmed to see what adults want them to see. They are not embarrassed when they stare. I think what I object to is the assumption that women will vote for a candidate simply because he is good-looking. Or that a woman will vote for Hillary because we need a woman president or it’s her turn or something silly like that. Women (like me) are intelligent and can make wise decisions. See, I’m as humble as Swami. Swami: I don’t doubt that you are a handsome dude no matter your age.

  39. grannyeagle,
    Have I told you recently that I LOVE you!

    I was once a good-looking little devil, myself!

Comments are closed.